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Author Topic: So who won the war?  (Read 2201 times)

Offline Seeker

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So who won the war?
« on: July 05, 2005, 04:52:32 AM »
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4508901.stm

Another BBS for guys to post on.

It's an intermnable point.
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Offline Skydancer

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So who won the war?
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2005, 07:30:18 AM »
"The biggest loser in the war was Britain, who lost her empire, foreign assets and was still paying for the cost of the war (mostly to the USA) decades later. The Soviets had the highest casualties, both civilian and military, but won a moral victory despite their leaders incompetence. The Americans were the real winners, they came out of the Great Depression with a stable/growing economy, made loads of money and still claim the moral high ground to this day. However, I believe that Britain should take the 'winners medal' as it took almost two years before the USA and the USSR declared war on Germany. Therefore without Britain's heroic lone stand we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
Dan, Sheffield, England"

I agree with this chap but then I would wouldn't I

;) :lol
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Offline lazs2

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So who won the war?
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2005, 08:42:27 AM »
britan didn't lose anything except things they never owned in the first place.   Hitler was within rock throwing distance and you guys let it all happen.  The fight after that was heroic in a euro barbarian way but... it was just the normal euro barbarian diplomacy style.  You probly lost the most but... it was inevitable.

lazs
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Offline Jackal1

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So who won the war?
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2005, 10:01:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skydancer
However, I believe that Britain should take the 'winners medal' as it took almost two years before the USA and the USSR declared war on Germany.
 


 At about this point in time it`s probably a good thing that the U.S. didn`t start kicking and screaming "Your leaders  got us in this stupid war" , as you seem to be so fond of saying about about the U.S. comcerning  recent events, huh?
  You might just be practicing your goose step about now.
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Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Skydancer

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So who won the war?
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2005, 10:01:49 AM »
We let it all happen!!!!:eek:

Are you totaly barmy!

Tell that to my Grandfather's generation. That remark is an insult to their memory!

Jackal1 Bloody nonsense. The two situations bear no comparison.
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Offline Ripsnort

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So who won the war?
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2005, 10:06:19 AM »
Quote
Mr Falin, however, says Russians never forgot the help they received from their allies.

"You ask any Soviet person, whether he remembers what a Dodge or a Willis is!" he says.

"The Americans supplied us with 450,000 lorries. Of course, in the final stages of the war this significantly increased our armed forces' mobility, decreased our losses and brought us, perhaps, greater success than if we had not such help."
[/i]


I'm sure Boroda will be by shortly to dispell this myth known as  propaganda above. ;)
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Offline Hangtime

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So who won the war?
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2005, 10:25:36 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
... it was inevitable.

lazs


Kim Jong Il: And now da destwuction of de worurd is inedidable
Lisa: It's what?
Kim Jong Il: Ine - ine - inedidable.
Lisa: One more time...
Kim Jong Il: I said, da destwuction of da worurd is inedible. Golly-geen, open your ******* eaws, girw!
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The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

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Offline Seeker

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So who won the war?
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2005, 10:42:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
britan didn't lose anything except things they never owned in the first place.   Hitler was within rock throwing distance and you guys let it all happen.  The fight after that was heroic in a euro barbarian way but... it was just the normal euro barbarian diplomacy style.  You probly lost the most but... it was inevitable.

lazs


I'd definately agree that _a_  world war was inevitable; partly as a result of you guys and the French.

You'd (along with the French) proven that one didn't need a God annointed king to be stable; and that not only was the grip of religion a hindrance to material progress; but that material progress did more good to more people than religion ever did. Therefore a conflict between the vested interests in power on the European mainland and the new forces of Democracy and rationality were in fact inevitable.

However; that there was a _second_ world war is a deplorable stain on humanities record; I reckon.

Further; having made a "deal with the devil"; inasmuch as Imperial Britain came to rely so heavily on a former client state; then yes; I agree that the Empire was doomed. It was clear from an early state that the post war world would be in great part ruled by the USA; and it had been a declared aim of the USA to spread it's version of popular rule (therefore putting it's self in conflict with the Imperial powers) in much the same way it was a declared Soviet aim to spread communism.

So yes; Great Britain absolutely needed the help of the USA in achieving Churchill's goal of unconditional surrender; but accepting that help lead to the inevitable end of Imperial Britain.
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Offline Hangtime

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So who won the war?
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2005, 10:47:44 AM »
"..ruled by the USA..."

Objection!!

(along with mosta the rest of the world outside of Washington)
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The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Seeker

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So who won the war?
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2005, 10:53:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skydancer
We let it all happen!!!!:eek:

Are you totaly barmy!

Tell that to my Grandfather's generation. That remark is an insult to their memory!

Jackal1 Bloody nonsense. The two situations bear no comparison.


But Skydancer; the critique is valid.

The Europeans were masters of thier own ship; if not dam near every one else's ship in the begining of the 20th. centuary.

Who else can you blame for WWII; ileagal combatants or something?

No; it was indeed our Grandfathers' generation.
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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So who won the war?
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2005, 11:02:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skydancer
We let it all happen!!!!:eek:

Are you totaly barmy!

Tell that to my Grandfather's generation. That remark is an insult to their memory!

Jackal1 Bloody nonsense. The two situations bear no comparison.


How soon you forget. Ever heard of a clown named Chamberlain? You know, the guy with the document signed by Mr Hitler, guaranteeing peace in our time? You must have layed out of history class that day.:rolleyes:

Face up to the facts, the Europeans had been in a near constant state of war for 8 or 10 CENTURIES.

Only after the horror of the most devastating war in the history of the world did any of the European powers become even somewhat hesitant to wage war.
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Offline Hangtime

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So who won the war?
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2005, 11:16:58 AM »
lessee where's my BBS Euro vs US Battle Royale checklist

popcorn... Check!

candy, gummibears, assorted... CHECK!

brewski's, cold, american... CHECK!

Ready on the American Right... Right side is ready!

Ready on the American Left... Left side is ready!

Lock and load, gents....

You may commence bickering!
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The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Boroda

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So who won the war?
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2005, 12:20:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
I'm sure Boroda will be by shortly to dispell this myth known as  propaganda above. ;)


USSR received more cars and trucks from lend-lease then it produced by itself during the War. It's a fact. But if you'll look at delivery schedule you'll see that the War was won on Soviet Zakhars (ZiS-5), not on Studebeckers. "An egg is precious on Easter".

Lend-leased weapons were insignificant compared to oil-cracking factories and 2 million kilometers of telephone wire...
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Offline Hangtime

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So who won the war?
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2005, 12:24:30 PM »
Would be interesting to see Russians trying to shove military supplies thru two million miles of phone wire.. and stand around looking at all that fuel with no truks to put it in.

Well, if yah didn't need the stuff, or pay for it.. least yah coulda done was return it.
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The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Boroda

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So who won the war?
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2005, 12:28:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Seeker
and it had been a declared aim of the USA to spread it's version of popular rule (therefore putting it's self in conflict with the Imperial powers) in much the same way it was a declared Soviet aim to spread communism.


There was no "declared Soviet aim to spread communism". For such ideas in 1930s you could be accused in Trotskism and spend some time cutting trees.

More to say: Comintern advised it's members (national left-wing parties) to stop fighting for "social revolution".
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