Best Self-Defense Firearm

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Yes, if a man is trying to KILL you, by all means, just "wing" him. That way he can go to prison, where the rest of the inmates will further educate him and he'll do a better job on you, or someone else, the next time.

This is REALLY simple. If you are forced to draw your weapon, it is because there is an imminent threat to your LIFE. There are any number of reasons that you are taught to fire at the K5 zone, center of mass. It is the largest and easiest area to hit, it is the area most likely to stop the threat, and on and on, ad infinitum.

ANYONE stupid enough to think, in the middle of a gunfight, "I'll just shoot him in the leg, or better yet, in the arm, and make him drop his weapon'', is going to get killed. It's that simple. The real world ain't Hollywood, and you ain't John Wayne, Tom Mix, Samn Elliot, or Steve McQueen.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Pooface
ok, well i didnt know that. personally i still woulda given him a shot in the leg, then kicked him in the balls repeatedly, then poured salt in his eyes if he did that shiz in my house, but huh, dead in that situation is faster. in extreme circumstances, it will be necessary, but it most it wont. and theres no need to pour the lead into him. as TK said, state laws differ, dont over do it because it could land you in trouble. think before you act and ure good

Are you REALLY stupid enough to think that in a life or death situation, with adrenaline coursing through your veins, and the life of someone you love at stake, that you are good enough to hit someone in the leg? About 99% of all people who fire a weapon in such a situation, while aiming at the center of mass K5 zone, miss dead center by 6" to 10". How big do you think the guys leg is? How many shots do you think you're going to get at his leg? How much time do you think you have before he kills someone?

IF you were to be issued a CCW permit, you'd be taught to fire two rounds center of mass K5, and if that didn't stop the perp, fire two more, same place. If you told them you'd shoot the guy in the leg, they'd laugh you right out of class and your application would be denied.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

If you are going to purchase a weapon for self defense, you should also immediately join both the NRA and the Second Amendment Foundation. They WILL help with your defense should you be charged with a crime after using your weapon in defense of your life or someone elses.

[Curval]

Sorry for the hijack...but I have a question for Martlett:

Martlett,

Recently we had laws passed that imposed severe penalties for carrying knives and machetes without a valid reason.  Defensive purposes are not considered a valid reason.  3 years imprisonment for first offense.

This is effectively a "ban" on carrying knives in public for anything other than a valid work purpose.

Now, using yours, and lazs logic, this has effectively rendered me defenseless.

Do you consider this a serious infringment of my rights?  

A week ago I could carry a machete in public.  Now I can't, without facing jail time.

[Martlet]

Originally posted by Curval
Sorry for the hijack...but I have a question for Martlett:

Martlett,

Recently we had laws passed that imposed severe penalties for carrying knives and machetes without a valid reason.  Defensive purposes are not considered a valid reason.  3 years imprisonment for first offense.

This is effectively a "ban" on carrying knives in public for anything other than a valid work purpose.

Now, using yours, and lazs logic, this has effectively rendered me defenseless.

Do you consider this a serious infringment of my rights?  

A week ago I could carry a machete in public.  Now I can't, without facing jail time.

It hasn't made you defenseless, but it is a serious infringement of your rights.  Here in MA we have similar laws.   They started a petition to take it to the voters, but the liberals laughed them out of town.  Unfortunately, there isn't a huge "knife lobby" to support their cause.

The government has no business taking anything from you unless you've shown you can't have it without trampling the rights of another.

Go get a concealed weapons permit and carry a .45 instead.

[lazs2]

you guys should listen to maverick on this one.. he is telling the straight scoop.

pooface... If we are talking about going to some "sensible" gun legeslation (gun control) and modeling it after some other country that has guns but low homicide and accident rates...  then why pick england?  

 Why not switzerland?  full auto in every closet.  low crime and homicide  rates..  you can buy any type of gun or ammo there and shooting is a normal pastime.   Any swiss would laugh his butt off at hearing a limey tell about shooting people in the arms to keep from killing them in a gunfight...  Why would I care what brits, who know nothing about guns, have to say?  Why wouldn't I listen to swiss or israilie's have to say instead?

martlet...  you really need to go to any gunsmith and ask em how many semi autos they get that it takes them hours to fix the "jam"  broken extractor... split case... etc.   the semi auto has one chamber... if something bad happens to it then the gun is useless.  If it's a plastic one... it isn't even a good short club.

lazs

[Martlet]

Originally posted by lazs2
you guys should listen to maverick on this one.. he is telling the straight scoop.

pooface... If we are talking about going to some "sensible" gun legeslation (gun control) and modeling it after some other country that has guns but low homicide and accident rates...  then why pick england?  

 Why not switzerland?  full auto in every closet.  low crime and homicide  rates..  you can buy any type of gun or ammo there and shooting is a normal pastime.   Any swiss would laugh his butt off at hearing a limey tell about shooting people in the arms to keep from killing them in a gunfight...  Why would I care what brits, who know nothing about guns, have to say?  Why wouldn't I listen to swiss or israilie's have to say instead?

martlet...  you really need to go to any gunsmith and ask em how many semi autos they get that it takes them hours to fix the "jam"  broken extractor... split case... etc.   the semi auto has one chamber... if something bad happens to it then the gun is useless.  If it's a plastic one... it isn't even a good short club.

lazs

I've been firing autos for 30 years.  I've never had a problem that I can remember that I haven't been able to fix in seconds.

[Suave]

Any double action  big bore revolver. Autos are only as reliable as their ammo, and if it's for self defense, split seconds are kind of important when someone is coming at you.

But a 12 guage with buck shot is even better, especially if you're defending yourself from something much bigger and faster than a man.

A good weapon to have slung on your chest if you're hiking in territory shared by man eating animals is one of those "little" 12 gauge pump action pistols.

[BBQ_Bob]

When it comes down to it get what you can afford, if that is a little stink .22 then make sure you empty the clip.  
And remember guns don't kill people, bullets do.

[lazs2]

martlett... broken extractors are common... what is your drill for fixing the problem?   Mine is...  take the gun apart and drive the case out with whatever is at the range... usually a pistol rod...  if that won't get it I take it home and use a brass drift....  these things take more than a few seconds for me to do so I would appreciate your giving me a better method.

I have had revolvers lock up after a shot because of a pierced or protruding primer... this is extremely rare and I still got off a shot... I have in some cases turned the cyl by hand while pulling on the trigger so that I could open the cyl and eject the load... with full moon clips this would be a quick clear.

most people will shoot a revolver for a lifetime without a problem... autos?.... maybe..  22's?  you won't shoot 22's very long before you will have a jam that will incapacitate the gtun for at least a few minutes or hours or... a trip to the gunsmith.

lazs

[Curval]

Originally posted by Martlet
It hasn't made you defenseless, but it is a serious infringement of your rights.  Here in MA we have similar laws.   They started a petition to take it to the voters, but the liberals laughed them out of town.  Unfortunately, there isn't a huge "knife lobby" to support their cause.

The government has no business taking anything from you unless you've shown you can't have it without trampling the rights of another.

Go get a concealed weapons permit and carry a .45 instead.

Maybe you have forgotten, but I live in a country that banned guns in 1971 or 1972.

So...my right to carry a gun was removed long ago.

With this in mind maybe look at my question again.

[lazs2]

well then curval... how could you have anthing useful to add to this thread?

lazs

[Martlet]

Originally posted by Curval
Maybe you have forgotten, but I live in a country that banned guns in 1971 or 1972.

So...my right to carry a gun was removed long ago.

With this in mind maybe look at my question again.

How am I supposed to know where you live?  

I don't know what rights you have as a citizen of whatever country you're from.

Ask someone who does.

[Curval]

Holy defensive.

Fine.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Martlet
he gun ban caused gun crime to rise in the UK.  Why?  Because now all the victims are unarmed.

Martlet, I don't think you know much about Britain. I'd guess you've never been here, as your statement implies a belief that we were an armed society before the gun "ban" of 1997. We were not.

And I see from your link that John R Lott is using the classic NRA statistics distortion technique of analysing UK homicides by noting percentage changes. The number of homicides in Britain is too small for percentage changes to have any real bearing. Another factor you might want to consider with regard to homicides in Britain is that there was a large increase in the number of recorded homicides for 2002, as this was the year when the case was closed on around 200 homicides committed by the doctor and serial killer, Dr. Harold Shipman.