Asian Man Shot Dead on London Tube

[Nashwan]

more police in england are armed every year.

lazs

No, the number is going down.

In 1996 there were 6,738 police officers allowed to carry firearms in England and Wales, that had dropped to 6,096 by 2004. (these are the numbers with training that means they can be issued firearms under some circumstances, most of them do not carry firearms routinely)

The number of times firearms are issued has gone up, but in 2003/04 the police in England and Wales fired their guns 8 times in 4 incidents (excluding stun guns, cs gas etc).

[Nashwan]

Don't get me wrong Nashwan, I couldn't agree more.

Ok, no problem. I though you were one of those complaining about the "poor" IRA terrorists on Gibraltar. (For those who don't know, several IRA terrorists were shot by the SAS in Gibraltar after parking what the police believed to be a car full of explosives, but later turned out to be a placeholder to keep a parking space open, they were returning to Spain to pick up the car full of explosives)

[Curval]

Originally posted by rshubert
Here's a specific, personal example.

I sold my house, and got a check for the equity balance, a fairly substantial check.  I took the check to my bank in the city where I live, and deposited it into my checking account, with the intention of using that money for the down payment on the house I was closing on a week later.

Then the **** hit the fan.  It turns out that a provision of the Patriot Act demands that the bank put a hold on the account (note:not on the check, or the amount of the check) when a large out-of-town check is deposited.  This is to prevent terrorists from transferring money, apparently.  The trigger amount is $5000.

I bounced about 6 checks, because my account was locked up for 10 business days.  I had to delay the closing on my new house.  I had to call six merchants and explain the situation.  It cost me abot $150 in bounce charges by the merchants--I managed to talk the bank out of their charges.

That sucks.

We have been instructing our clients to pre-warn their banks when they expect large deposits or withdrawls to affect their accounts.

Credit cards are another example.

If you are making a large purchase call your bank beforehand to let them know about it and ask them to call Amex, Visa etc.

If you are going overseas likewise let your bank know in advance.

Always carry more than one card to avoid embarassment or annoyance.

[lazs2]

more people with police powers are being armed in england every day.  does it matter if the guy with the power of the gun is a government cop or a city cop?

lazs

[Toad]

Nashwan,

First, I have no sympathy at all for the London bombers. Just want that understood.

However, compare and contrast your concern for Padilla's "due process" with the "due process" given the man shot on the subway yesterday.

The man was under police observation because he had emerged from a house that was being watched following Thursday's attacks, a Scotland Yard spokesman said.

He was followed by surveillance officers to Stockwell station, where his clothing and behaviour added to their suspicions, he added.

Police warned the man, who ran on to the station platform. Witnesses said the officers opened fire as he jumped on to a train.

'Pushed to the floor'

Sir Ian told a press conference: "I need to make clear that any death is deeply regrettable but as I understand the situation the man was challenged and refused to obey police instructions."

Basically, the officer's had no "proof" the man was going to do anything dangerous, merely suspicion because he came from a house under surveillance. Much like Padilla coming in from Pakistan.

Now it turns out they cannot connect the dead man to the subway bombings. (All quotes from BBC, btw)

A man shot dead by police hunting the bombers behind Thursday's London attacks was unconnected to the incidents, police have confirmed.

A Scotland Yard statement said the shooting was a "tragedy" which was regretted by the Metropolitan Police.

The man was shot dead after police followed him from a south London flat to Stockwell Tube station on Friday.

So if my liberty is being compromised by Padilla being slowly moved through our court system, what's the status of yours if one can be shot to death for leaving a house under surveillance and boarding a subway while wearing a heavy coat after ignoring a police warning?

Again, I have no sympathy for the subway bombers.

[Eagler]

why did he run?

[Toad]

Going to be pretty hard to ask him now.

[GreenCloud]

Im still waitng to see ONE Court Case about the Abuse of the Patriot Act

[Chairboy]

Originally posted by GreenCloud
Im still waitng to see ONE Court Case about the Abuse of the Patriot Act

Maybe you missed this: http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/30/patriot.act.homeless.ap/

Also, Brandon Mayfield is suing the justice department over his Patriot act arrest, also mentioned in a previous article.

Glad to be of service.

[Toad]

Chairboy, I did I miss your answer to these questions earlier in the thread?

Could you give me specific examples of what has replaced the presumption of innocence? What checks and balances are short-circuited?


On the trains/homeless issue: What is your feeling about only ticketed passengers being allowed inside the airport security perimeter? (Inside the metal detectors, basically?) How would you feel about the same system when applied to train stations, in light of London's recent experience?

On the Mayfield arrest, apparently they had what they thought was ONE fingerprint of his on the Madrid bombing evidence. Rightfully, the FBI memo says this isn't enough to arrest him. I'm OK with that. Apparently, they want to keep him around as a "material witness" based on that one print until they either get more evidence to arrest him or fail to get any and remove him from consideration. They appear to have some fear that if it hits the papers that they're looking at him, he'll flee before further evidence either way is unearthed. So, when it hit the papers, they held him as a "material witness" and let him go in two weeks when nothing further indicated he was part of the plot.

What would you have preferred, that they ignore the one fingerprint and if he WAS in on the plot take the chance of him escaping? Or hold him until they could indict or clear him for sure?

[Chairboy]

If you arrest someone, either charge them formally or let them go.  They held him without charging him, right?  Why?  Because when you're formally charged, you gain certain rights as a defendant.  They held him for weeks as a 'material witness'.  Translation: limbo.

Why are you so anxious to give up your rights?

[Toad]

Is that supposed to be your answer to my questions?

[Vulcan]

Apparently the "cops" were plained clothesed, wearing leather jackets, one answered to the name of Doyle:

da da duh....

[ravells]

Should this thread now be titled 'Brazilian man who had no connection to the bombings shot dead on the tube' ?

Silly person, why didn't he just stop when he was challenged?

Ravs

[Chairboy]

Originally posted by Toad
Is that supposed to be your answer to my questions?

Toad, with respect, I'm not going to be your monkey.  I've answered the points in the above and other posts in this thread.