Author Topic: Backpacking Q  (Read 973 times)

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2005, 07:12:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Suave
That's unfortunate, may I ask why? I know that they are commonly used in europe and, believe it or not, himalyas.


Ethanol is for drinking, not for burning as Hang said ;)

"Compass is broken, spirit from compass is drunk, and a crew doesn't recognise each other for some time" :)

But well, a liter of 95% medical alcohol is only 2-4 times more expensive then gasoline, and as you wisely noticed - it's a fuel not only to a stove. ;) I never saw such stuff in hiking stores, only different propane/butane stuff that gets more and more advanced and economical with every year. I have a first-generation stove, using tanks that have no valve and can't be removed before the gas is over, bought it in 1997, it's usefull only to boil one liter or maybe roast eggs in the morning when you go to the forrest on weekend.

It's illegal to sell pure ethanol except in drug-stores in Russia, and they usually sell it in idiotic containers: 100ml or 17 liters (14kg in a 20L plastic canister). One of my friends once had to buy 600 (six hundred) 100ml bottles, they needed to supply 50+ alconauts on lake Seliger.

Offline Suave

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« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2005, 07:17:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Suave

500ml of etoh will boil about 35-40 liters of water depending on outdoor temperature. l[/url]


LOL, I meant 3.5 gallons
« Last Edit: July 30, 2005, 07:22:37 PM by Suave »

Offline Suave

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« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2005, 07:20:49 PM »
They don't sell denatured alcohol in russia? Or HEET ?
http://www.goldeagle.com/heet/

Both are much cheaper than drinking alcohol, and they are more effecient fuel than drinking alcohol.

I only take drinkable etoh because of it's dual purpose.

Offline Suave

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« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2005, 07:21:46 PM »
BTW I got to give props to Russian for starting this thread. Good job, I hope you got some usefull information.

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2005, 07:22:28 PM »
I was a little bit surprised myself about this number ;) Meant that I'll be able to boil 1/3 of my body mass after a serious alcoholiday :D

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2005, 07:30:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Suave
They don't sell denatured alcohol in russia? Or HEET ?
http://www.goldeagle.com/heet/

Both are much cheaper than drinking alcohol, and they are more effecient fuel than drinking alcohol.

I only take drinkable etoh because of it's dual purpose.


We have "white spirit" for lighting barbecue (shahlyk) ovens. Denaturate is probably sold too, I haven't been to an old-style housekeeping store for years.

What is a size of your cooking-pot? Is it possible to boil an 8L (2 gallon) bucket on such a stove?

Another thing we use to make water boil faster is glass fabric sheets to wrap a stove (or a "Primus") and a pot. Makes it heat up several times faster in a wind. It also helped in case a "Primus" exploded.

Offline Suave

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« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2005, 07:39:53 PM »
No it would not be practical to use a backpacking stove to prepare a meal for more than 2 people.

If you want to try one yourself they can easily be made at home from aluminum cans.



Offline Boroda

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« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2005, 07:53:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Suave
No it would not be practical to use a backpacking stove to prepare a meal for more than 2 people.

If you want to try one yourself they can easily be made at home from aluminum cans.


Nice stuff, but only for one person indeed. I'l try to make such a thing, I hope I'll not burn alive after consuming more alcohol then I'll pour into this tiny thing :D

When I hiked seriously, I mean - going hiking for 2 to 5 weeks three times a year - I was hiking with a group of kids from a school where I studied, as a second or third leader, "leutenant". I meant that we had  10-15 kids plus 3-6 adults. So such things were useless.

I usually have a small stove for dry fuel, in 3-4cm tablets, but I have only some small quantity of this "dry spirit" left from my Soviet-times stock, and now they don't sell such stuff any more. I used it to boil a 1L mug of water (I use it instead of a dish) for myself or heat up canned meat, still carry it just in case I'll get lost at night going to another forest party near Moscow.

Offline Lizking

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« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2005, 08:00:28 PM »
A stove.  Jeez, do you bring the TV too?

Here is my pack for 4 days on the trail:

Framed Allison pack.

Rolled into a bedroll that is 4 foot long so that it wraps around the top of the pack:
2 ea - 8x12 plastic ripstop tarp.
20x20 6 mil poly, clear.
Quilt or wool blanket.
Cotton sheet.

Tied off to the pack:
Camp shoes (Topsiders).
Machete.
Flashlight.
(Possible 2 gallons of canteen capacity, if needed)
On the pack shoulder straps:
2 small pouches, one with my compass, one with a lighter and a pocketknife.

In the Pockets:
2 plastic canteens, both with tin cups.
Lid pocket holds ziplocked toilet paper and parachute cord, as well as my tin eating dish.
The four outside pockets hold:
WII messkit, that includes salt, pepper, tinfoil, washcolth, tabasaco, trashbags, and hobo-silverware.
Survival pocket that contains a firstaid kit, tinned oysters, a knife, compass, water tablets, penlight, and candles, along with a couple of thermal blankets and an extra pair of glasses.  I have a roll of 2# leader material along with a few flies and some plain hooks in there as well.
Toiletries pocket, with toothpaste, toothbrush, deoderant, shampoo, and rolaids.
The final pocket is for easy access stuff, like extra cigs, suntan lotion, etc.

Inside the pack:
6 pair socks.
6 underwear underwear.
4 shirts.
1 heavy long sleeve shirt.
1 short pants, 1 long.
2 towels.
2 bottles of Jagermiester
4-6 MRE's broken out of the packaging.
20 candles, at least.
Flashlight.

In addition, we divide up our "fresh" food and carry it in or on the pack.  Usually loads out at 50# or so, so it isn't too bad, although it can go to 80 if we can't get water.

Offline Soda

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« Reply #39 on: July 30, 2005, 09:31:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
i used tro have trouble with alcohol stoves at higher altitudes. I went back to my old GI gas unit, boils much faster, imho. haven't played with any of the modern ultra-light and small stuff.


The new equipment available simply is so much better I've replaced almost everyone in my kit (except my boots).  The MSR Dragonfly is an excellent stove, had mine since they came out and it's excellent (if a bit noisy).  New internal packs are unbeatable for comfort.  I got a set of titanium pots and they weight about 1/4 as much as my old steel set.... unreal.

Things I'd suggest to think about.
- a waterproof bag for clothes or to hang food in.  Kayaking bags are great, I use two of them when I'm out.
- a hiking pole.  Saves the knees and helps balance on downhills.  Also good to poke things to make sure they are solid before stepping on them.
- some light climbing rope.  Use to hang things, clotheslines, tie stuff down, etc.  Not really for climbing use but could serve that purpose in case of a fall (had to do this one to pull someone out of a gully).

Think about a guide though for anything more than an overnighter, especially if you are new to this.  They tend to provide great advice on equipment and what you should/shouldn't take in a particular area.  I've seen some absolutely stupid stuff on trails in my time, some of it pathetically dangerous and some of it funny.  Was on the West Coast Trail a couple of years back on the Canadian west coast and a guy had 2 cartons of smokes wrapped in plastic taped to his chest... '

Think necessities though, water, warmth, dry, etc.... the rest of it you can accidently forget and not worry about much.

Offline capt. apathy

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« Reply #40 on: July 30, 2005, 10:41:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda

GPS is a toy. Never used it. I always trust a map (even if it's a faded photo-copied 1937 stuff from GUGK RKKA), a magnetic compass and my own eyes. Orientation on a plain is quite easy. I've won two competitions in night-orientation as a group commander when I was at school, the only trick is to use "linear objects" as checkpoints.
 


good map and compass skills are great (if you can't use them effectively then your sense of where you are at in relation to your world isn't good enough for you to be navigating on your own in the wilderness.

but the GPS is far from a toy.  fog can set into the hills with little or no warning.   add that very limited visibility, to the general 'rough estimate' quality of even good wilderness maps, and a few obstacles to set you off the straight line (like a mountain, a canyon or 2, a river, or large windfall trees that have to be negotiated around, and even someone with a great sense of direction can find his map almost useless and his compass not good for much beyond telling you which way north is but not where you are.

the GPS can save your butt, by always giving you a fresh reference for your location instead of letting small errors at each course change adding up to you being hungry, cold, and on the 6-o'clock being marched out of the woods by a team of searchers.  or worse.

Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #41 on: July 31, 2005, 01:11:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Suave

The heater is basically just a plastic bag with a sodium based heating element. Put the foil pack of food into the heater bag and poor a little bit of water into it and 5 minutes later you have a steaming hot lunch.


Oh and for gods sake dont think that steam cant be as hot as it looks. Cause its hotter.
and nothing hurts worse then a steam burn.
So when you look at that steam comming out of the box. Dont think. "hey that looks cool then put your hand down by it to see how hot it is cause a steam burn is exactly what you will get.

trust me. I was that dumb once LOL
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Offline hacksaw1

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« Reply #42 on: July 31, 2005, 05:03:01 AM »
If you are a complete tenderfoot to the wilderness, then Suave's advice is good. Don't go alone on your first multi-day trek into isolated wilderness.

Find an experienced hiker or group who can teach you the outdoor skills that help insure safety and enjoyment. Why take off on your own and wind up with a chaffed crotch and deep heel blisters after the first three hours, or bit by a snake that you don't have any idea whether it's poisonous or not. Are you going to an area where there are ticks (most of the continental US)? Might be nice to know how to avoid Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever - Lymes. I'd suggest going on a few "daylight only" hikes to practice land-navigation and other skills to get used to the wilderness. I'd choose a location with a clear landmark, like a river or obvious mountain peak or something. Get a thorough guidebook on wilderness outings and read it before you go, not during your hike. And as several above have said, take the hi-tech gadgets and practice with them. Use the GPS a few times. Later you can leave it turned off in the bottom of the pack.

Best regards,

Cement

Offline Russian

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« Reply #43 on: August 01, 2005, 11:44:57 AM »
I appreciate all the help received. As most of you suggested, I will go with a friend and not alone. I will post pictures after the event, which should be sometime this month. Once again, thank you.

Offline Suave

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« Reply #44 on: August 04, 2005, 04:51:08 PM »
I will be doing an overnight trip in big bend national park this weekend. This is what I'm taking.

tent
poncho
emergency poncho x2
kelty super tioga external frame pack
sleeping pad
poncho liner
shorts
Long sleeve shirt
Tshirt
pants convertable to shorts
liner socks two pair
hiking socks two pair
cocoa mix
coffee grounds
one cup coffee filters
bic lighter x2
water proof matches
water proof matches container
compass
p38
multitool
mess kit
vargo triad stove
fuel 500ml
2.8 liter colapsable canteen x2
2 liter douch bag
44ml fluoride rinse
clever tooth brush (contains paste)
120ml biodegradable camp soap
two small diswashing sponges
dental floss
1 bottle of 50 iodine tablets (Potable Aqua)
1 bottle of 50 vitiman C tables (PA plus)
1 3 LED head lamp
sugar
folding 12"x6" camp fire grill (with duct tape or aluminum foil doubles as windscreen for alcohol stove)
lexan fork spoon and knife
toilet paper 1/2 roll
folded aluminum foil
mirror (on compass)
jungle boots
plastic whistle
bunch of plastic trash bags
bunch of ziploc freezer bags
light weight 8'x5' tarp (tent foot)
cell phone
miniature e-tool
all-weather notepad
pen
protractor
maps (purchased from ranger station)
bandana
leather gloves
50ft spectra cord
30ml 100% DEET spray
Duct tape (wrapped around fuel bottle)
travel size deoderant (19.8g)
Package of bathing wet wipes
« Last Edit: August 04, 2005, 05:15:05 PM by Suave »