Spoke to Pyro re Spits

[Kev367th]

This is what he is thinking of -

Spit I - 12lbs boost if sufficient evidence.
Spit Vb - 12lb boost (hold on don't scream)
Spit F IX - Fix of current Spit 9
Spit LF VIII - Maybe if he thinks enough use for it.
Spit F XIV - Possibly 21lbs boost
Spit LF XVI - At 18lbs boost initially, possibly 25 in future (clipped wing)

Seafire III - Merlin 55M with high boost as current Spit V

PS check cost of Spit 14, it's down to 15 perks.


Thanks for taking the time to chat Pyro. If I got anything wrong please correct.

PS Anyone got climb rate figures for a Spit 16 @ 25lbs boost. The only thing putting Pyro off it is his figures show a climb rate of 5000-5700fpm.

[StarOfAfrica2]

Sounds reasonable to me, although I'm not a big fan of adding that many extras.  I'd definitely be behind the Spit I, Spit Vb, Spit F IX, Spit XIV and Seafire III changes that you have down there.  We need more difference between the Spit V and the Spit IX most definitely, and adding another carrier based plane wouldnt be a bad thing.

[1K3]

imo spit 16 should be clipped wing.

[Kev367th]

It will be 1K3, tried to talk him into adding bubbletop also, but too much extra work .

Not adding another CV palne, it is replacing the IIc.
It will be basically our current Spit V (same motor and boost) but it can carry ord.

The XVI is being added to fill the late war 'free' spit gap we currently have.

As I said check the MA now, the Spit 14 is now a base 15 perks.

OHH HELL
Spit 16 @ 18lbs boost

0- 5000ft = 5000fpm
5000 - 10000ft - 4970fpm
10000 - 15000ft - 4970fpm
15000 - 20000ft - 4280fpm
20000 - 25000ft - 3720fpm

[Squire]

"It will be basically our current Spit V (same motor and boost) but it can carry ord." - Nope thats incorrect.

Seafire L.IIIc had a Merlin 55M with +18 lbs boost. Not +16. All the Seafire IIIs had the low alt Merlin "Ms" that boosted +18. These are late 1943-45 varients. Spit IIc had a Merlin 46, not the same animal at all.

I beleive the source can be found on the Spit performance page re the Seafire IIIs engine.

...my source is "Spitfire in Action".

The Spit F. VIIIc was widely used in MED, ITALY and FAR EAST.

Agree on the Spit 16 (XVI) should be an E wing (20mm and .50s) with clipped wings and 3 weapon pylons. Since they all served in late 44-45 Im not sure there is a "non 150 octane" version though. They all served in NW Europe with 2nd TAC AF.

The Spit Vb +12 looks ok to me, the Spit F. IX can make up the slack for 1942. You cant have everything and compromises have to be made. Its a good 1941-42 fit.

[Kev367th]

Sorry I meant 18lbs boost for the Seafire III.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Kev367th
This is what he is thinking of -

Spit I - 12lbs boost if sufficient evidence.
Spit Vb - 12lb boost (hold on don't scream)
Spit F IX - Fix of current Spit 9
Spit LF VIII - Maybe if he thinks enough use for it.
Spit F XIV - Possibly 21lbs boost
Spit LF XVI - At 18lbs boost initially, possibly 25 in future (clipped wing)

Seafire III - Merlin 55M with high boost as current Spit V

PS check cost of Spit 14, it's down to 15 perks.

Please, please yes.

This looks like a very nice lineup Pyro.  I would love to see it in AH.

I would really like to see the Spit VIII in as well.  I'd understand not getting it, but I would rather see it than the clipped wing XVI if they'd both be at +18lbs boost.

I do like the reduction on the Spit V's boost and turning the Spitfire Mk IX we have into a proper 1942 Spitfire F.Mk IX.


StarOfAfrica2,

The problem is that your list leaves big, gaping performace gaps in the WWII Spitfire lineup that simply cannot be fudged away.  The fact is that the Spitfire was the main RAF fighter through nearly the entire war, excepting only the very start when there were more Hurris, and it served in many progressive versions that had distictive performance changes.

[1K3]

Originally posted by Kev367th

OHH HELL
Spit 16 @ 18lbs boost

0- 5000ft = 5000fpm
5000 - 10000ft - 4970fpm
10000 - 15000ft - 4970fpm
15000 - 20000ft - 4280fpm
20000 - 25000ft - 3720fpm

geeez

I knew the +25 boost is an OVERKILL:D

here's the one with +25

Altitude feet / Rate of climb Ft Min.
0 / 5740
5,000 / 5080
10,000 / 5080
15,000 / 4470
20,000 / 3720   
25,000 / 2950   
30,000 / 2200

that kind of rate of climb is close to that of MiG 15s and F-86s.

[Squire]

There is a very good book by Dr Alfred Price from Osprey Publishing "Spitfire Mk I/II Aces 1939-41 (1996)"

Pages 18-19 have a section on 100 Octane fuel (Spring 1940) the increase to +12 lbs from +6 lbs on the Mk.I, and 3 bladed Rotol and De Havilland prop types.

Its readily available at many US bookstores for about $18.00.

http://www.warweb.com/books/osprey/aircraft.html

[Karnak]

Here is another point, did Seafires ever serve off land bases?  If not, then should they be only CV enabled?

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Karnak
Here is another point, did Seafires ever serve off land bases?  If not, then should they be only CV enabled?

Yes they did Karnak., in the CBI at least if not more places.

Dan/CorkyJr
Looking forward to that clipped XVI high back.  Thanks Pyro

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by 1K3
imo spit 16 should be clipped wing.

Spit XVIs were all produced with clipped E wings and three hard points.

Dan/CorkyJr

[Squire]

Depends on the map and scenario Karnak. PTO? ETO? MED? 44? 45?

For the "most part" Seafires served aboard the RN CVs and CVEs, just like "most" USN squadrons did with F6Fs and F4Us. There were some exceptions.

Seafire IIIs did serve with the Combined Naval Spotting Pool of 2nd TAC AF in 1944 for Normandy. They did a lot of odd jobs incl escort and sweeps despite the odd name of the unit. Detachements did serve on land in the Far East as well. You really need a book to get all the info, too much for me to type right at the moment.

[Kev367th]

1K3 - True, but the main reason for the 25lbs boost would have been the extra 30+mph for catching the 190/109s.
Even then they are still both faster on the deck than a Spit 16 with 25lbs boost.
Just give you a better chance of catching them if you had some alt on them.
What Pyro is wary of is the climb rate with 25lbs boost.

Just noticed and it's got to be wrong -
New ENY values
Pony - 6
Seafire 2c - 6
Spit 5 - 6

Thats insane????????????????????????????????????

getting worried bout the ENY for a Spit 16, prob up there with a Lala.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Kev367th
Just noticed and it's got to be wrong -
New ENY values
Pony - 6
Seafire 2c - 6
Spit 5 - 6

Thats insane????????????????????????????????????

getting worried bout the ENY for a Spit 16, prob up there with a Lala.

As is natural for one of the best fighters of the war, no?  I would be surprised if the Mk XVI had anything other than a 5 ENY value.

As to the ENY of the Spit V and Seafire IIc:

t isn't based on any particular performance numbers, just on usage. HTC allows the players to determine where the true overall performance advantage rests. ENY values just follow the resulting usage.