Author Topic: "Jap", political correctness, and my poor attitude (Read 2319 times)

Gadfly · « **Reply #15 on:** December 10, 2001, 06:20:00 PM »

Hey Boroda, I think the difference is that the U.S did what it did in the fight against Evil. Now why did Stalin kill all of his own countrymen again?

Daff · « **Reply #16 on:** December 10, 2001, 06:36:00 PM »

Most Japanese find the term 'jap' offensive.

Daff

Pongo · « **Reply #17 on:** December 10, 2001, 07:58:00 PM »

I dont give a rats bellybutton about whats offensive in the Japanese language. I bet they would get pretty uppity if any barbarian told them what words they should or shouldnt use.
Why did they think they had veto power on the english language again?

Oh ya..the "Japs" are the bad guys in the old movies..They were activly dehumansed during the war so our grandfathers would feel ok killing them, I guess it worked. The "japs" ceased to exist and have been replaced by the "jpns". The "jpns" never had anything to do with the "japs" and are not even sure the the "Japs" existed. They certainly dont want to be associated with them.

Sort of like Lexus and Toyota....change the name the silly westerners will believe anything.

majic · « **Reply #18 on:** December 11, 2001, 12:04:00 AM »

I was watching Midway on TBS not to long ago and was very surprised to hear them edit out "Jap". Personally I find that ridiculous. If its used in historical context, what's the problem? That is what they said. Besides, I don't hear the Brits, Fins, Swedes, or Poles complaining...

Hangtime · « **Reply #19 on:** December 11, 2001, 12:15:00 AM »

The "Japs" were real. Not a myth. They were nasty vile creatures that the enlightened Japanese of our day would rather not aknowledge.. but they did exist; they still exist.

There will be "japs" as long as men remember the death marches, the murders, the torment and rape of the people and nations of Asia.

Karnak · « **Reply #20 on:** December 11, 2001, 12:45:00 AM »

"Jap" and "Nip" were used, and intended, as a racial slurs in the context of WWII. "Krout" was used as a racial slur in the context of WWI and WWII. "Frog" was used as a racial slur against Frenchmen in many wars that England fought against them.

"Yank" was intened as a slur by the British troops in the Revolutionary War, but we Americans took it an made it our own. That is somethiong that has not happened to the other terms.

"Brit" is a shortened term for "British" and every context I have ever seen it in seems to carry a bit of affection, thus it is not an insult.

We are not fighting WWII here. We should not use racial slurs to refer to eachother and then say, "Take and like it because our fathers and grandfathers kicked your fathers' and grandfathers' tulips in WWII!" when people say that they are offensive.

This isn't about being politically correct anymore than not calling a black person a "N****r" is about being politcally correct. This is about simple, common courtesy and respect for people in the here and now.

Political Correctness is BS in my opinion, but just because some misguided fools came up with that idiotic idea doesn't make it right for those who disagree with them to use their idiocy as an excuse to act like uncivilized boors and pigs. That is what I see you guys doing. Over-reacting to the PC crap by going too far in the other direction just to defy the PC crap pushers.

mietla · « **Reply #21 on:** December 11, 2001, 01:12:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak:
This isn't about being politically correct anymore than not calling a black person a "N****r" is about being politcally correct. This is about simple, common courtesy and respect for people in the here and now.

Political Correctness is BS in my opinion, but just because some misguided fools came up with that idiotic idea doesn't make it right for those who disagree with them to use their idiocy as an excuse to act like uncivilized boors and pigs. That is what I see you guys doing. Over-reacting to the PC crap by going too far in the other direction just to defy the PC crap pushers.

Ding, ding, ding!

You've nailed it Karnak with one correction. Just because I choose not to do something, does not mean I can't do it. The decision still belongs to me. I (and you too) have every right to be a dick, the key here is, I (we) choose not to do it.

It's the ancient legal vs. moral/good story.

Just because something is legal, it does not necessarily follow that it is moral (being a lawyer is perfectly legal

)

Just because something is illegal, it does not necessarily follow that it is immoral.

It is still my contitutionaly guaranteed right to insult anyone I wish in any way I wish (and the Constitution forbids the government from punishing me for that). The insulted party can react any way they want, but remember words and ideas can't be suppressed by the government, the deeds and actions can and are.

[ 12-11-2001: Message edited by: mietla ]

Karnak · « **Reply #22 on:** December 11, 2001, 01:50:00 AM »

mietla,

Absolutely. My comments in the thread that sparked this thread were not meant to say that people cannot say those things, but rather a request that they be polite.

I fully stand by the 1st ammendment.

We have the right to say almost anything, but we can choose not to.

funkedup · « **Reply #23 on:** December 11, 2001, 05:40:00 AM »

The reason not to use "Jap" is because... it pisses off a lot of Japanese people. If you want to have Japanese friends and not be seen as an amazinhunk by Japanese people, then don't use it in front of them. If you are an amazinhunk then have at it.

As for the swastika it is a very simple issue. There are very strict laws about showing this symbol in Germany. If you are making a product that is to be sold in Germany then you have to omit the swastika.

Mitsu · « **Reply #24 on:** December 11, 2001, 06:52:00 AM »

easymo · « **Reply #25 on:** December 11, 2001, 11:05:00 AM »

We have freedom of speech. Not freedom of rudeness.

I grew up in the 50's. That means being raised on WW2 movies. And I Also had a few uncles that were vets of that war. Jap and kraut, where about the only way I ever heard these people referred to. I have used these terms often in my life. It is worth remembering that the rest of the world does not understand the flippant way we use racial slurs. Americans are all from somewhere else. This has led to a racial mix that few other countries in history have had to adjust to. Our casual racism is often misunderstood by people of other lands. While we all use the words, we seldom mean any real harm by them. Its a bit like calling a younger brother a dork, when you were kids. It is meaningless to you and your brother. It is worth remembering that folks in other lands wont get the sublty of this at all.
I have used the word kraut on these boards in the past. And Germans posted of my hatred at the time. The irony of this caused me to chuckle. My father was stationed in Germany in the fifties. He married a German girl. And I have a half brother, and sister, that are both half German. I love them very much. So much for my hatred for Germans. My youngest daughter has been dating a Korean boy for a couple of years. I will probably wind up with little gook grand babies

Such is the nature of being an American.

For folks of other lands, that see this stuff. Don't take it to heart. A casual racism is a non- malicious
part of the American makeup. For my countryman. We need to remember that we are appearing boorish, and rude, when we use such words. Lets try to show a little class.

[ 12-11-2001: Message edited by: easymo ]

streakeagle · « **Reply #26 on:** December 11, 2001, 11:51:00 AM »

Interesting how all these other people who aren't Japanese are speaking for them. How does anyone who isn't Japanese know how most Japanese feel? The one true Japanese person to reply merely posts

I wonder if this isn't somewhat blown out of proportion?

My feelings aren't even dented when someone calls me a "spic" because of my Spanish surname and blood. Whether used as a rude insult or just a crude abbreviation, only individuals looking for an excuse to be angry or violent respond to its use.

In a wargaming environment (I am thinking back to all of the boardgames I used to play), we always used abbreviated names with no malice intended. For example when playing "Air Force"/"Dauntless", "hand me all the Brit and Jap data cards".

Unless someone like Mitsu says otherwise, I see it as a bit of a PC overreaction to criticize someone for a topic containing "Jap planes" in our abbreviated internet world. I doubt it was intended as a slur, and doubt most people would take it as such.

Mitsu, two questions for you to clarify my understanding of reality and define just how out of touch, uneducated, and insensitive I really am:

1) How do you personally feel about the use of the term "Jap" when refering to Japanese equipment, i.e. Jap planes, Jap ships, etc. ?

2) How do you think the majority of Japanese people feel about that same term used in that same context?

Hangtime · « **Reply #27 on:** December 11, 2001, 01:13:00 PM »

Great post Easymo. I concur most wholeheartedly.

funkedup · « **Reply #28 on:** December 11, 2001, 01:21:00 PM »

Streak I'm not Japanese, pure-bred redneck here. I'm just going by what I'm told by Japanese and Japanese-American friends I've gone to school with and worked with, and what I've been told "virtually" by guys in flight sims. I've had Japanese AH and WB players contact me more than once on private channels to ask a player to stop using "jap" on chat. Those experiences have formed my opinion on the matter.

miko2d · « **Reply #29 on:** December 11, 2001, 02:13:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by streakeagle:
How does anyone who isn't Japanese know how most Japanese feel?

Why start there?
Until someone with personal experience testifies in this thread, I decline to believe that there is such place as Japain with alleged "japanese" populating it, let alone the war US allegedely had with it!
I would not believe either of those allegations unless someone with first hand personal experience vouches for the truth of those facts.

Seriously, I know japanese people feel through having japanese friends in real live and/or discussing things on this and other international boards for the last few years. Also, reading books and newspapers helps somewhat.

miko