Author Topic: Fellow Americans what do you think..... (Read 5321 times)

Udie · « **on:** April 03, 2001, 12:21:00 PM »

About this China crap? They've had 24 of our boys for 4 days now with no sign of release, and they have taken apart our plane. Are we at war with them? I see NO reason for them to still be holding our soldiers. The plane I can understand, but the soldiers I don't get.

Personaly I'm starting to think we need to bash China down while we still can. They've been rattling thier sabors for almost 10 years now and I for one am tired of it. We should start by sending 4 or 5 cruise missles and whipe out the airport that our plane is at, that should be done by this weekend if our boys aren't back yet.

May all communist BURN IN HELL!

Udie

fd ski · « **Reply #1 on:** April 03, 2001, 12:34:00 PM »

we did bomb their embassy already

------------------
Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF

Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998

Northolt Wing Headquarters

Toad · « **Reply #2 on:** April 03, 2001, 12:38:00 PM »

Udie, do that and you will NEVER see the crew again, I assure you.

Military force isn't going to be the answer to this one.

1. Use force before you get the crew back and they will either kill them or lock them away somewhere and TELL you that they were "killed in your own attack".

2. Use force after you get the crew back and you are over-reacting. If all they have is the inanimate plane, you can't justify (in the court of world opinion) attacking a sovereign nation.

I'm suprised the Navy Tactical Doctrine for an aircraft of this sophistication and importance allowed them to land in China.

I would have thought the standing orders would have been to ditch in deep water, like tac doctrine was in the "old days".

Face it. They have already won this one. They will release the crew when ready and I doubt we'll ever get the plane back before they have thoroughly examined it...if at all.

However, let this be a guideline for our dealing with them from this day forward.

I'd end "most favored nation" trading status with them immediately.

I'd slowly begin building tarriff barriers against importing their goods and slowly begin implementing supplements and tax breakss for US businesses that move out of China.

I'd also provide incentives for our businesses to build trade with other, more responsible nations.

I would implement short-term compensation for any US workers that were adversely affected by this program.

The Chinese are simply unreliable partners, in world peace or trade interests. The sooner we admit it and move on the better.

Let them live in their workers paradise without the US market to support it.

[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 04-03-2001).]

ygsmilo · « **Reply #3 on:** April 03, 2001, 12:45:00 PM »

They are just posturing Udie, they created this incident in order to establish a presedent for further action if we give Tiawan the armaments they want.

I dont really have an opinion on that but the interesting thing is what the Japanese are doing right now----nothing.

They have the most to lose if China begins to destablize the area.

Got go back to work, will post more later.

------------------
Milo
3./JG2
"Preceive those things which cannot be seen."

Eagler · « **Reply #4 on:** April 03, 2001, 01:13:00 PM »

I'm with you udie. Posted the cruise missile suggestion twice already. I think the Chinese are using the crew to barter with us on the Taiwan deal.

Then again the captain of the plane may not want to come back as I think he messed up by not ditching and sinking the aircraft with it's secrets.

Eagler

Sturm · « **Reply #5 on:** April 03, 2001, 01:15:00 PM »

IMO, and for those that do not believe the chinese are at fault. You have to understand whats going on in this situation. A good friend of mine just retired from the USAF doing 20 years in the AWACS business, he works as a civilian 50 feet from me now on Langley AFB. Keeping the crew hostage more or less is grounds for bellybutton kicking. We see where diplomacy has led to, we see were economical strains placed on a country have done. It is time to stop being a push over and start acting like the number 1 country that we are. Otherwise you will see an increase of "accidents" like this one. Do onto others as you would do upon yourself does not apply in this situation. As it is now does China fear the united states? Nope, we need something to happen to strike fear into other countries, so these cowardly acts will stop. Kick their tulips IMO.

------------------
Sturm6 StaffelKapitän
JV44 Platzschutzstaffel
Airfield Defense Squadron

Daff · « **Reply #6 on:** April 03, 2001, 01:40:00 PM »

Yeah!! Start WW3!..that would make the global warming, slowing economy irrelevant and we would all find out if there is a god or not.
Best idea I've heard in ages.

Daff

Pup · « **Reply #7 on:** April 03, 2001, 01:43:00 PM »

you guys are forgetting thats a huge plane he had it is about the size of a large commercial airliner, and to boot it has a radar dome on the bottom, pretty hard to ditch and survive in water eh? Btw, reports are that they didn't have parachutes so they could save weight......so they most likely either dumped the very sensitive equipment, and then landed it...But on topic, yep we should do something, and do it soon, this is violating INTERNATIONAL LAW!

Pup out

[This message has been edited by Pup (edited 04-03-2001).]

Mk10 225th · « **Reply #8 on:** April 03, 2001, 01:53:00 PM »

I'm with you udie. Posted the cruise missile suggestion twice already.

Eagler, I swear, you're like Nick Fury, but without Nick's common sense!

Mk

Pongo · « **Reply #9 on:** April 03, 2001, 01:56:00 PM »

Canadian.
They had to have instructions to land there from their theater comander right? I find it increadable that they landed there.
They are equiped for survival certainly. I am sure that it is no easy decision to put her down in the water of the north pacific but life is hell. You cant give that airframe to the Chinese. Did the other fighter threaten them or something to get them to land there?

Countries that dont anwser to their people for their decisions sure stand out like a sore thumb.
Will this be one of those corners in history where things change dramaticaly.
Cause that sure looks like an act of war to me.
If they forced a CVN into port and detained the crew would it be clearer what is going on.....
Or is this another ooo they atacked our intelligence ship in the gulf...

Toad · « **Reply #10 on:** April 03, 2001, 01:57:00 PM »

Hey Pup! News Flash!

There are published ditching procedures for commercial aircraft! Or do you think we just fly B-767ER's across the pond and hope for the best?

More News!

The RC-135 is an even BIGGER commercial aircraft (B707-720) than a P-3 with antennae and "cheeks" stuck all over it and it has....

published DITCHING PROCEDURES!

All that being said, ditching is a pretty risky venture and people most likely are going to die or get hurt.

Nonetheless, there are risks when you put on a uniform. And it's no secret about ditching.

My unit briefed everyone on the Tactical Doctrine and the risks. If it wasn't for you, you could opt out. I never knew anyone that did. It went with the job.

I'll bet he's WISHING he HAD ditched right about now. (I have no clue as to their current Tac Doctrine, however.)

Fury · « **Reply #11 on:** April 03, 2001, 02:00:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad:
.....However, let this be a guideline for our dealing with them from this day forward.

I'd end "most favored nation" trading status with them immediately.

I'd slowly begin building tarriff barriers against importing their goods and slowly begin implementing supplements and tax breakss for US businesses that move out of China.

I'd also provide incentives for our businesses to build trade with other, more responsible nations.

I would implement short-term compensation for any US workers that were adversely affected by this program.

The Chinese are simply unreliable partners, in world peace or trade interests. The sooner we admit it and move on the better.

Let them live in their workers paradise without the US market to support it.

Damn straight.

Fury

[This message has been edited by Fury (edited 04-03-2001).]

Karnak · « **Reply #12 on:** April 03, 2001, 02:01:00 PM »

According to International Law, as I understand it, China had no right to board and inspect that aircraft. It is considered to be sovereign US territory and can not legally be inspected without explicit US permission. As far as the crew goes, China may have the right to "debrief" them before returning them and their aircraft (uninspected, unless the US gave permission to the US, which it did not in this case).

I think that both China and the US are being too aggressive in this case. Admittedly, its hard to be calm when our people are being held against their will by a foreign nation, but we should still try. I think a week is too short a period of time to go through before starting WWIII.

China IS, supposedly, granting access to the crew today by US Diplomats.

------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!

Sisu
-Karnak

Eagler · « **Reply #13 on:** April 03, 2001, 02:05:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mk10 225th:
I'm with you udie. Posted the cruise missile suggestion twice already.

Eagler, I swear, you're like Nick Fury, but without Nick's common sense!

Mk

Why thank you Mk

Just exploring all of our options.
Here's a question for all:
If the roles were reversed and a Chinese "spy" plane was sitting in say California somewhere, wouldn't you CA residents be walking around wondering if the Chinese might retaliate? I would if there was one sitting at MacDill here in Tampa.

Eagler
"always thinking the worse but praying for the best"

Yeager · « **Reply #14 on:** April 03, 2001, 02:05:00 PM »

Im with Toad plus I would arm Taiwan to the brim with grim. A heavily armed Taiwan could probably defeat the mainland army in a week or three.

Yeager