Author Topic: Reasons to add the B-29 (Read 4460 times)

Skilless · « **Reply #30 on:** October 25, 2005, 10:45:28 AM »

Make the B29 only available from zone bases. This would give us another reason to play stategically since taking a zone base would not only take away the ability to resupply but also to up the uber-bomber....

Well, at least make it so you can only up it from a large base.

Hap · « **Reply #31 on:** October 25, 2005, 11:40:24 AM »

nukes no. B-29 yes. The cockpit view must be awesome.

~~hap~~

SuperDud · « **Reply #32 on:** October 25, 2005, 11:41:05 AM »

U cant have a B29 with no nookie! What's the point?

Skilless · « **Reply #33 on:** October 25, 2005, 04:25:21 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hap
nukes no. B-29 yes. The cockpit view must be awesome.

~~hap~~

~~I'd have to agree~~

outbreak · « **Reply #34 on:** October 27, 2005, 11:43:05 PM »

True to that =] nothing like a B-29 it would be one of the better bombers on Aces High for High Level Bombers =] would save me from low level lancs hehe

SuperDud · « **Reply #35 on:** October 28, 2005, 12:23:46 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by outbreak
True to that =] nothing like a B-29 it would be one of the better bombers on Aces High for High Level Bombers =] would save me from low level lancs hehe

I don't believe that for a second outbreak. You'd just replace your lancstukas with B29s.

outbreak · « **Reply #36 on:** October 28, 2005, 05:14:01 AM »

nah i wouldnt

i just use lancs for low level because ima good carpet bomber with em

now give me a 29 i drop form 25k and just keep on chuggin

Krusty · « **Reply #37 on:** October 28, 2005, 11:43:48 AM »

Well, considering we don't have a periscope on the Ar234, it might be difficult for HTC to come up with a way to work the guns on the B29. I think that's the major reason why they haven't even tried it. I'm not too broken up, mind you.

But the thing with normal guns is that the gun is right in front of you. It shoots out to where you aim. Only, in the B29 that's not so. You have 3/4 remote gun turrets, and if you're, say, in the port waist position, somebody in charge toggles the guns to work with your station, and you aim them. But in AH that means there are convergence issues. The guns are many feet away in both directions (front/back) so how do you code it so that the bullets actually hit their targets? Answer: It's hard.

Also, if all bomber guns are set to convergence of 500 yards, in a b29 you'd never hit anything outside or inside that range. Even using one single gun (which B29s can't) there are still convergence issues.

So you see it's not an easy thing to put in.

mipoikel · « **Reply #38 on:** October 28, 2005, 01:44:28 PM »

Arent all bomber turrets "remote controlled" allready? Including drones. I dont see it as a problem.

Krusty · « **Reply #39 on:** October 28, 2005, 02:13:15 PM »

You miss my point.... Think of a triangle with a flat bottom and 2 sides that meet in the middle. If you're off even the slightest from 90 degrees, then the distance at the "point" of the triangle shifts. If you're just in or just out of 500d range, your guns will miss by miles. Okay I've made a slightly exaggerated image to illustrate my point. The guns would be ineffective 99% of the time if modeled as AH currently has them.

The black lines are the B29 fuselage. The black circles are the gun turrets (fore and aft). The blue circle is the viewport the gunner is using to aim the guns. The red dot is the enemy. Blue arrow is the direction gunner is aiming. Orange lines are bullet streams.

So you see, there are issues to work out before the b29 can ever be added.

Simaril · « **Reply #40 on:** October 28, 2005, 03:17:18 PM »

Excellent diagram, krusty

A question: how would things change if the remote control feature were simply ignored, for gameplay reasons? Wouldnt things work right if the "sight" pretended to be a "gun's view" instead of the historical "gunner's view" at his remote station?

mipoikel · « **Reply #41 on:** October 28, 2005, 03:52:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
You miss my point.... Think of a triangle with a flat bottom and 2 sides that meet in the middle. If you're off even the slightest from 90 degrees, then the distance at the "point" of the triangle shifts. If you're just in or just out of 500d range, your guns will miss by miles. Okay I've made a slightly exaggerated image to illustrate my point. The guns would be ineffective 99% of the time if modeled as AH currently has them.

The black lines are the B29 fuselage. The black circles are the gun turrets (fore and aft). The blue circle is the viewport the gunner is using to aim the guns. The red dot is the enemy. Blue arrow is the direction gunner is aiming. Orange lines are bullet streams.

So you see, there are issues to work out before the b29 can ever be added.

And that is how it works allready. Except blue dot is "real" gun in AH. If your gun is damaged, lets say example in B24, things work just like in a picture. Aiming is more difficult but not impossible. And we all know how effective those bomber guns are...

Still I dont see any problems. And I dont want B29 to AH, there are many other planes Id like to see before it.

Krusty · « **Reply #42 on:** October 28, 2005, 07:47:43 PM »

Sim, mik, as we have it now, the gun is actually placed on the view. So even if the res of your guns miss you still have YOUR gun, which will hit almost every time (if you compensate for distance/rounds dropping). In the B29 you would never even get "just your gun" to hit the target.

So, yes, we have this type of convergence now, but in a B29 it would be even worse, as you don't even have the gun you are stationed at -- that's not how the B29s work.

Sim: the b29 turrets are all remote controlled. They are small and have no windows. The windows are spaced through the bomber. So there's no way to just stick a gun at the window (there weren't any) and there's no way to just stick a gunner in the turret (not possible) so you run into the same problem -- how do you do it?

Simaril · « **Reply #43 on:** October 28, 2005, 09:45:36 PM »

Krusty,
Iguess i was suggesting that for the purposes of jsut making it work, it might be reasonable to PRETEND the 29 turrets worked like the standard AH2 turrets. In other words, give the game non=historic gunner postions with views that would only have existed if the b29s guns had gunners at the turret positions.

Its historically garbage, but it would work....as well as the current setup, anyway.

Alternatively, could this be an option?

The historic gun and view positions in place.

Imagine that the half circle view from the gunners position has an overlaid compass, with 180 degrees' divisions.

Each gun would be programmed to lay fire so that when the VIEWER looks at a given direction, the gun will intersect THAT VIEW at a range of 500 meters.

So, a gun directly over the viewer's position will have the identical angle as the view; but one forward of him will have a proportionate adjustment to the rear so the fire strikes the imaginary 500 meter circle around the plane at just the spot the gunner is aiming at. Make the same adjustments for every gun, add the vertical circle for the second axis, and ??Oila??

Krusty · « **Reply #44 on:** October 28, 2005, 11:45:21 PM »

Then you run into problems when you're a few yards inside or outside 500yards. Even though you have the perfect shot, the perfectly stationary target, and at 500 yards you would saw the enemy's wing off, say the target is at 600 yards, and the bullets all zip across the target's bow.

The problem is that you only will ever hit at 500, and we all know how likely that is

EDIT: I'm surprised it worked in WW2, considering how it works... I wonder how THEY overcame this problem.