"Intruder" in my house!

[eagl]

Beetle,

I'm not sure if you were serious or trying to be funny but my doors and windows were all locked this last Friday when my house was broken into and looted.  They forced 2 small windows open and damaged a few other windows and doors before they finally found one door they could rip entirely out of the wall to gain entry.

The point of course is that a determined burglar is going to get in unless you take obscene and expensive measures to turn the house into a fortress, and even then all you're really going to do is slow them down.  The question is how much money do you have to spend before you've slowed them down enough to be a real deterrent?

And that doesn't cover other "human factors" issues such as overly complicated locks and alarms that may get set improperly, "inside jobs" where you are betrayed by people you trust, or crooks getting tipped off by people you don't trust but with who you must share at least some vulnerability data (such as movers, electricians/plumbers, etc).

The fact remains that burglars feel free to attempt to enter almost any house, and very few houses can be made secure enough to completely resist or deter a thief who has nothing to lose and does not fear getting caught.  A thief in the UK risks little from the occupant or owner other than a good scolding, so there is little deterrent.  A neighbor of mine caught someone trying to enter his house and the thief felt so secure that he stuck around for quite a while to shout obscenities and threaten to burn the place down.  Further into Cambridge, thiefs have children climb security fences so they can be unlocked or compromised from inside, and there is apparently not much penalty for exploiting children like that.  So it only makes sense to have a plan for what happens after an intruder gets into the house.

[mauser]

What I was taught in the NRA safety class was to identify the target, and also evaluate the threat.  My interpretation of that would be to get some distance from the intruder, use my light to identify and then verbally command them to get out.  If they go bug-eyed and have that "oh, crap!" look, drop whatever it is they're holding and turn tail running out of my house I have no right to shoot.  If they go the other route and come at me or loved ones despite "instruction" otherwise then they deserve to be stopped.  I'm aware that how things REALLY pan out during an acutal situation will vary - Mr. Murphy be danged, "no plan survives first contact."  Some sort of early warning system like a perimeter alarm or a dog would be a great part of a security plan.  You'd get at least a few seconds audible warning (maybe even visual if you have exterior motion detector lights) via bark or alarm to wake up and start your plan.

[megadud]

Originally posted by Hangtime
No more hollywood for you. Couches, walls and coffee tables do not stop bullets.

i know but if the intruder didn't see him then he can identify the intruder before ithe intruder does see him. then it comes down to reflexes. does it take longer for our ace to shoot a loaded gun pointing at an intruder or an intruder to notice our ace  point his gun in the right position and fire. I would bet on our ace.

and don't forget

"Shoot him Kim!"

"BAM! 'crying'"

Shoot him again Kim!"

...BAM!

[Golfer]

It's TV sure but try watching "It Takes a Thief" on the discovery channel.

These guys if they want in, they get in to your average house.  Even afterwards they show the importance of actually using your home alarm and security system.

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by megadud


i know but if the intruder didn't see him then he can identify the intruder before ithe intruder does see him. then it comes down to reflexes. does it take longer for our ace to shoot a loaded gun pointing at an intruder or an intruder to notice our ace  point his gun in the right position and fire. I would bet on our ace.

and don't forget

"Shoot him Kim!"

"BAM! 'crying'"

Shoot him again Kim!"

...BAM!

put.... the... remote... DOWN.

now, slowly; back away from the television set.

-------------

Golfer, caught a few episodes of that show... great stuff. Picked up some pointers and even sent the producers a note saying thanks for some useful programing.

[beet1e]

Eagl,

I'm sorry you've suffered this trauma of being burgled. Not pleasant.

However, I read your hypothesis of a burglary...

Originally posted by eagl
I'm not sure if you were serious or trying to be funny but my doors and windows were all locked this last Friday when my house was broken into and looted.  They forced 2 small windows open and damaged a few other windows and doors before they finally found one door they could rip entirely out of the wall to gain entry.

The point of course is that a determined burglar is going to get in unless you take obscene and expensive measures to turn the house into a fortress, and even then all you're really going to do is slow them down.  The question is how much money do you have to spend before you've slowed them down enough to be a real deterrent?

...and frankly, I don't find it especially plausible. If you're not present when your house is being burgled, then having a gun isn't going to make one jot of difference. If, however, you're suggesting that the above scenario plays out with the house occupants present, with burglars forcibly gaining entry, it begs the question as to why the occupants did nothing to stop them. If they were trying different windows to gain entry, and then went on to rip another door right out of the wall, the whole thing would have lasted quite some time, and they would have created a lot of noise - plenty of noise to alert the occupants, who would have had enough time to get to where they were and shout "Oi" - at which point the burglars would have buggered off. Nashwan described exactly this scenario, where he startled some burglars, and they did indeed bugger off.

[Toad]

FBI: Violent crime rate declines again

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. violent crime rate declined 2.2 percent last year, continuing a decade-long downward trend in serious offenses, the FBI said Monday.

All major categories of violent crime in the United States declined in 2004, bringing the rates of the most serious offenses, including murders, rapes, robberies and assaults, to a level 32 percent lower than those reported in 1995, the new figures show.

The rate of property crimes -- such as burglary, larceny and auto theft -- declined 2.1 percent as well last year.

No doubt the primary cause of the decline is the increasing use of a well-timed "Oi!" by the victims. Very few criminals have been able to withstand a single "Oi!" and multiple shouts of "Oi!" have caused some career criminals to surrender themselves at the local police station.

[Curval]

Maybe Toad...but before you suggest that it was gun laws relaxation (which it couldn't be based upon the moaning about tightening those laws I see here regularly) the article states:

"The annual report offers no reasons for the trends, but the exhaustive statistical data provides criminologists and academics with raw material to examine."

Come to think of it, perhaps the tightening of those laws actually resulted in the decrease...no?  NAH!!!!

...and before lazs drops all the reason for the crime that did take place on the black population:

"The report said the number of murder victims and the total of suspects were both nearly equally divided by race. Most suspects were adult men using firearms, and about one in five murder victims was female."

Also, there is some bad news:

"The only category of violent crime in which the number of incidents rose was forcible rapes -- to 94,635 in 2004 from 93,883 in 2003, an increase of 0.8 percent. But accounting for an increase in population, the rate of forcible rapes dropped 0.2 percent."  

LOL...talk about twisting stats...the rate actually dropped if you take into consideration an increase in population...are there many people committing forceable rapes under the age of 1 in the US?  I don't think so.

Toodles.

[dedalos]

Read most of te posts so I if I missed one I appologise.

All stories are about a father that killeld or almost killed a loved one.  Non, about how a gun saved your life.  And I do mean your life, not your VCR. Do you guys understand how stupid it is to have a gun in the house for protection?  You almost killed your son because you wanted to protect your VCR?  What is it about Americans that the first thing the think of is, killing someone?  Why not have a taser gun for deffence?  

Why instead of going for the gun with the INTENT of killing the potential VCR/TV/Money thief, you call 911, make known that you know they are there adn the police is on the way, take your taser or BBBat (or even the gun) and lock yourself in the bead room?  Is that not what a real man should do?  A real man must kill someone? If that someone was trying to steal your car you would not think about killing him.  Is it because he is in your property, and you think you can get away with killing him that makes you take the gun?  Why confront them?  

I'm sure people will come up with any possible excuse to have a gun.  You are lucky you still have your son.  Put an alarm system, get a dog, a taser gun, and a couple of cordless phones.  Alternativly, if you guys are so afraid that need guns in order to sleep safelly at night, well, its time to move somewhere where there is not a war going on.

[megadud]

not vcr's dedalos DvD pleyers!!

i don't want people stealing my stuff and i think they should die if they try, 1 less POS to deal with. Jail doesn't work, they got it better then most people who aren't criminals. i don't like guns because it could backfire and shoot me. I would have no problem shooting a man but i am old fashioned i would rather hang them or stone them, tar and feather whatever they want. How long would it take for a taser gun to kill a robber? I would tell the police i couldn't find the off switch or when i tased them the first time they went to get more stuff so i got them again. It's not the fact that we think our possesions are worth the risk of killing a loved one it's the fact that a robber should die for trying to rob. it's called a freakin job. if you are going to have a gun be careful with it.

[indy007]

Originally posted by dedalos
If that someone was trying to steal your car you would not think about killing him.  Is it because he is in your property, and you think you can get away with killing him that makes you take the gun?  Why confront them?  

If I'm in the car, and they try to steal it, they'll get shot. I drive my wonderful gas guzzling SUV with the windows up and the AC on full blast everywhere I go. My doors automatically lock when I turn the key. If anybody is trying to steal the car with me in it, they had to smashed their way in. If they're crazy enough to attack my car when I'm strapped inside, they're crazy enough to attack me to take the car. It gives me peace of mind to know I can answer their attack with 9mm fire instead of verbal abuse.

[nirvana]

Good lord Kev, glad to hear it turned out alright.  I would be scared to have RHIN0 running at me though, I happen to believe (from seeing his picture and knowing his background) he would be a very scary foe, especially at night.  His son (seen pictures) had no chance at all.  Whatever no good they were up to  means a big wallop across the face.



P.S.  Any of you have German Shepards that have guard training?  Precious until some guy decides to take a detour through your yard.......

[Silat]

Originally posted by nirvana
Good lord Kev, glad to hear it turned out alright.  I would be scared to have RHIN0 running at me though, I happen to believe (from seeing his picture and knowing his background) he would be a very scary foe, especially at night.  His son (seen pictures) had no chance at all.  Whatever no good they were up to  means a big wallop across the face.



P.S.  Any of you have German Shepards that have guard training?  Precious until some guy decides to take a detour through your yard.......

Yes

       

[eagl]

Nice dog silat.  Is it "properly" trained, or is he just mean?  A properly trained guard dog of the right breed can pretty much be trusted to look after babies, but a poorly trained one is just an accident waiting to happen.

I was always impressed by a neighbor's golden retriever...  Great with kids and it would protect any child it ever met and any adult he was formally introduced to.  I don't know if it had any training other than basic obedience, but good breeding and a caring owner seems to make the difference between an intelligent protector and a dangerous brute.

One reason I don't have a dog is because I don't think I have the time or energy to be a "good" owner, and it wouldn't be fair to the dog or the neighbors.

[Martlet]

Originally posted by kevykev56
Saturday night. Was my wife and I alone in the house. My 18 year old daughter was off with her school for the weekend at an event. My 17 year old son,  spending the night with the "band" for a practice session.

1 AM, sitting reading this BBS after finishing up AH. I hear something in the back of the house. Wife is in bed, I can see down the hallway, she hasnt left the room. Its quiet in the house. I hear the noise again. I get up to investigate, I walk down the hall, "is it my daughters room or sons room?" as I pass my sons room I hear a thud....adrenaline starts pumping like never before. I swiftly move back to the computer room and open the gun case.

At this moment I made a life or death decision. I decided against grabbing the gun.

Again I swiftly move back to sons room. Very charged up and the lights out I kick open the door. I see two silouets in the room, closest one smaller than the second. I immediatley grab the first one and sling him through the doors and into the closet, I charged past him and went for the second intruder who is still half in and out of the window. I grab him into a headlock and start to wring his neck. Thats when my senses came somewhat back and I heard my son in the closet screaming DAD!!!

He had been kicked out of the band members house where he was staying. The parents didnt approve of the late night session when they arrived home. He had left his key and didnt want to wake up mom and dad. Well, that was his story, but after more investigation he was up to no good and didnt want Dad to find out.


Needless to say I was so angry and fired up that I am still thinking of taking up smoking to calm myself down. Just typing this makes my hands shake 2 days later. I could just as easily grabbed the gun and fired away. Thats the part that scares me the most. The other side of the coin is...it just as easily could have been a real intruder that would have been armed.

I have been trying to decide If I made the right decision in not grabbing the gun, maybe the sound of a 12Gauge cycling as they came throught the window would have been more intimidating than a 285lb man charging headlong at them. But would I have pulled the trigger?...all these things just eat away at me now.

The real problem at hand is my son, getting him straightened out is my biggest concern. I am absolutely POSITIVE that he will NEVER make that same mistake again, nor will his friend. I doubt he will be with the "Band" until after he is 18 and moved out of my house.

Was not picking up the shotgun I have kept for defense of my home for the last 15 years the right decision? I doubt I will ever be sure. But I know this...if anyone ever comes through a window in my house again I can be positive It will not be my son, so the shotgun will come out of the cabinet.

Picking up the gun doesn't obligate you to shoot someone.  Not picking up the gun doesn't give you that option, though.  Had it been an armed intruder, after he'd killed you and your wife, he may have gotten a decent price for your unfired shotgun.