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Author Topic: Kids, religion, and atheism  (Read 1304 times)

Offline Jackal1

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Kids, religion, and atheism
« Reply #45 on: October 19, 2005, 01:48:43 AM »
I`m always amused by those who state that they are staunch atheist, but seem to fear the words God and Jesus so much. Seems they are not so convinced of their own atheism. If your non-belief is so strong, then why the fear?  :)
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Offline J_A_B

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« Reply #46 on: October 19, 2005, 02:02:24 AM »
"Nash I think you're describing Agnosticism, not Atheism."

Not exactly.  A "true" agnostic isn't merely undecided.  Rather, the agnostic believes that even if God does exist, God takes no active role in shaping our lives.  That is why I try not to use the word agnostic to describe myself, although sometimes I do if I'm in a lazy mood.  Unlike the agnostic, I'm perfectly willing to accept that traditional Catholics may in fact be correct.   At least, that's what I've always been taught the word means.  Others obviously use it as synonymous with "undecided" so I suppose either works.




Seagoon--

Since you're here, there's something I've always wondered about protestants:  Why don't protestants believe in the Eucharist?  


J_A_B
« Last Edit: October 19, 2005, 02:21:40 AM by J_A_B »
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Offline Vulcan

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« Reply #47 on: October 19, 2005, 02:07:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Jackal1
I`m always amused by those who state that they are staunch atheist, but seem to fear the words God and Jesus so much. Seems they are not so convinced of their own atheism. If your non-belief is so strong, then why the fear?  :)


I've never met a fellow athiest scared of those "words", perhaps you  are confusing fear with annoyance at ankle biting christians?

The number of times I've stood in a field with some mate and said "if theres a god may he strike me down now" and its never worked is amazing. Pity my christian mates refuse to put money on it, funny their belief isn't strong enough :)
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Offline Yeager

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« Reply #48 on: October 19, 2005, 02:21:03 AM »
Two thoughts:

Do athiests get to go to hell when they die? or do they go to the in-between room?

And....

Saw a T-shirt today that read:

"Heck is for people that dont believe in Gosh"
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Offline J_A_B

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« Reply #49 on: October 19, 2005, 02:35:30 AM »
"Do athiests get to go to hell when they die?"

As I was taught, not necessarily.  Since God created us, He will judge each of us according to who we are.  That's what this essentially non-practicing Catholic was taught, anyway.  Take it for what it's worth.


J_A_B
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Offline Pooh21

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« Reply #50 on: October 19, 2005, 04:26:30 AM »
Probably get what they want most, to not exsist anymore.
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Offline oboe

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« Reply #51 on: October 19, 2005, 06:36:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by J_A_B
"Nash I think you're describing Agnosticism, not Atheism."

Not exactly.  A "true" agnostic isn't merely undecided.  Rather, the agnostic believes that even if God does exist, God takes no active role in shaping our lives.  That is why I try not to use the word agnostic to describe myself, although sometimes I do if I'm in a lazy mood.  Unlike the agnostic, I'm perfectly willing to accept that traditional Catholics may in fact be correct.   At least, that's what I've always been taught the word means.  Others obviously use it as synonymous with "undecided" so I suppose either works.




Seagoon--

Since you're here, there's something I've always wondered about protestants:  Why don't protestants believe in the Eucharist?  


J_A_B


Thanks, J_A_B.   I guess Agnosticism has more than one definition- I had understood it to mean when a person believes they cannot know whether God exists, rather than just being skeptical that He does.

btw, I'm Protestant (Lutheran actually) and I'm sure Protestants believe in the Eucharist (Holy Communion), though there are several interpretations of what is actually taking place within the bread and wine during the act of remembrance.   Is that what you are referring to?

Great post as always, Seagoon.
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Offline Eagler

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Re: Re: if no "R" means no afterlife then ...
« Reply #52 on: October 19, 2005, 06:59:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
McDonalds is the most popular restaurant in the world.  Sure doesn't mean that it's cuisine.

Helpful as always, Eagler.

 
but there IS a Ronald McDonald :)

your welcome
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Offline Seagoon

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« Reply #53 on: October 19, 2005, 07:59:32 AM »
Hi JAB,

Quote
Originally posted by J_A_B
Seagoon--

Since you're here, there's something I've always wondered about protestants:  Why don't protestants believe in the Eucharist?  


J_A_B


I hope It'll be ok to go ahead and answer this here, seeing as I guess it applies to the uhhh.. "religion" part of the Kids, religion, and atheism thread.

Anyway, as Oboe has already pointed out, most Protestant do indeed "believe" in the Eucharist (a word which means "Thanksgiving" in Greek) and practice it on a fairly regular basis, although most Protestants refer to it as either communion or more commonly the "Lord's Supper" which is how Paul refers to it in 1 Cor. 11:20.

I sense what you are asking about however, is not simply the observation of the Lord's Supper as sacrament of the church, but rather "Why don't Protestants believe in Transubtantiation, i.e. that the bread and the wine literally become the flesh and blood of Christ at the supper?" The short answer to that is because most Protestants do not believe that the doctrine of Transubstantiation is taught in the bible, but is a later and warrantless tradition of the church.

Historically, the doctrine of Transubstantiation developed rather late, and first makes it appearance in the form that would be recognized today in Paschasius Radbertus in his 831 AD treatise Concerning the Sacrament of the Body and Blood of Christ, which when it appeared excited quite a bit of opposition and counter-treatises. Just  to show how novel the view was, in 815 AD in his commentary on the book of Matthew, Claudius the Archbishop of Turin had written that the elements of bread and wine were only symbols of the flesh and blood of the Savior.

So to sum up, Protestants believe that the Lord's Supper was a sacrament (or "ordinance" if you're Baptist) given by Christ to the church to be regularly observed until his return, but do not believe the explanation (founded on Aristotelian philosophy) that the outward "accidents" of the bread and wine remain the same, while the "essence" literally changes to the actual body and blood of Christ. They believe that the words "this is My body" are obviously symbolic and no more meant to be take absolutely literally than "I am the true vine."

- SEAGOON
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Offline Sisco55

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Atheism is human arrogance
« Reply #54 on: October 19, 2005, 09:42:17 AM »
People r stupid. they cant admit that there could be something smarter and better than them.(God) Contrary to popular belief Hitler was not a Christian. He was an atheist and saw christianity as being weak and a form of juadism. Now, do u wanna be like Hitler? Atheists don't isten to morales and are jerks. they often get involved with communism and faschism.
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Offline Sisco55

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« Reply #55 on: October 19, 2005, 09:43:55 AM »
by the way, i am a lutheran.
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Offline Sandman

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« Reply #56 on: October 19, 2005, 10:13:49 AM »
When they start passing around the Koolaid, be sure to get two.
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Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #57 on: October 19, 2005, 10:26:25 AM »
I, for one, welcome the wise words of Sisco55, whos tremendous insight into all matters theological is well known.  You're right, Sisco55, I HAVE been wrong all these years!  I'm glad you posted here, I'll be heading down to the church to convert asap.  Nobody ever put it so clearly before!  Hallelujah!

...

Anyways, as the rest of you know, I'm not trying to start a 'my (non) religion is better than yours' fight, I'm just struggling with the best way to raise my kids in a theocratic world.  Do I get the same free pass with indoctrinating them that religious families do?  Or do I play dumb and tell them "I don't know if there's a god" even though that goes against my beliefs?  

Seagoon has brought up some great points to ponder, as have many others.

This place is good to use as a sounding board.  Despite heckling by storch, eagler, and silly people like Sisco55, I value your insight.  In the end, the decision is that of my wife and myself, of course, and these posts do not constitute validation, but I'm too old to waste time arguing the point with the fanatics.

If y'all are interested, I'll update the thread as my wife and I hash this out.  Might be interesting to see how us godless heathens act when we're not eating babies and starting communist takeovers.  :p
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Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #58 on: October 19, 2005, 10:27:12 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vulcan

The number of times I've stood in a field with some mate and said "if theres a god may he strike me down now" and its never worked is amazing. Pity my christian mates refuse to put money on it, funny their belief isn't strong enough :)


Were you the professor on Gilligan`s Island?
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Offline rabbidrabbit

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Re: Atheism is human arrogance
« Reply #59 on: October 19, 2005, 11:46:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sisco55
People r stupid. they cant admit that there could be something smarter and better than them.(God) Contrary to popular belief Hitler was not a Christian. He was an atheist and saw christianity as being weak and a form of juadism. Now, do u wanna be like Hitler? Atheists don't isten to morales and are jerks. they often get involved with communism and faschism.



And, clearly, a partionally functional idiot.



"Atheists don't isten to morales and are jerks. "

seriously bud, put down the coolaid.  There is no way such a blanket statement can be true and it shows you to be the bigot that you are.
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