Cool F-117A

[Gunslinger]

The SR71 was orriginally the RS71.  I can't remember who it was at the time but one of the presidents miss-spoke and called it the SR in a public conference.  In order to keep from embarrasing him the military renamed the plane.  Saw that on discovery ch.

ASTAC I beleive that all of our jets here at AFFTC have to be somewhat mission ready if needed even if they aren't production models.  Painting the stars and stripes on the bottom of an F117 would sertainly make it usless in combat.  Even if it's going to be De-milled that tail number is on all the readyness reports and has to be removed sooner than later.

[rshubert]

Originally posted by Sandman
Are you certain about this? IIRC, the A-12 was a Navy program that was discontinued in the early 90's because of gross mismanagement (or something to that extent).

Different A-12.  The orignial one was developed for the CIA, and was the early version of the SR-71.   They were operational for only about a year, flying missions over 'Nam.  The Air Force took over the program, and upgraded the design to the SR-71.  All the A-12s were put away at Davis-Monthan.  Last I heard, they are still there, but that could be out-of-date info.

See, it fooled you, didn't it?  Sow confusion, and the dirty commie bastiges might not be able to get a handle on the details of the program.

[Chairboy]

I think the RS-71 story is apocryphal.

[rshubert]

Originally posted by Nefarious
The YF-12 was a slightly smaller version of the SR-71 designed as a Soviet bomber interceptor.

According to my information, the YF-12 was actually developed from the (single seat, btw) A-12 as a two seat modification, with a nose mounted radar and internal storage for Hughes AIM-47 missiles.  There were only about three built, and two crashed.  The third is in a museum, somewhere.
Our Boy McNamara cancelled the contract after 65 of these beauties were ordered.  Thank you, Mr. Secretary!  A secretary of defense that never saw a weapons system he didn't want to cancel!

Interestingly, the missile (originally developed for the F108 Rapier) survived the program and was developed into the AIM 54 Phoenix, the long range missile carried by the F-14 Tomcat.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Chairboy
I think the RS-71 story is apocryphal.

I know it sounds like an urban legend but they did repeat it on the discovery ch. once.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Chairboy
I think the RS-71 story is apocryphal.

In Ben Rich's (Kelly Johnson's successor, designer of the SR-71 engine systems, and Chief Engineer on the Stealth fighter) autobiography it talks of revising all the Lockheed drawingsto show SR intead of RS due to Johnson's mistatement.  It cost Lockheed (undoubtedly passed on to us taxpayers) a few million.

[Chairboy]

It's difficult to argue this using the web as a reference, so in the interest of conversation (without suggesting the following is conclusive) I offer this from Answers.com:

The originally planned USAF designation for the aircraft was B-71, then RS-71, following on from the planned RS-70, a reconnaissance version of the XB-70. However Curtis LeMay preferred the SR designation and wanted the RS-70 to be named SR-70. When the Blackbird was to be announced by Lyndon B. Johnson on February 29, 1964, Johnson's speech was modified by LeMay to read SR-71 instead of RS-71. The media transcript given to the press at the time still had the incorrect RS-71 designation in places, creating the myth that the president had misread the plane's designation.

[Nilsen]

Originally posted by Russian
Anyone for a badminton game?

If you promise not to wear a skirt again I'm in

[Nefarious]

Originally posted by rshubert
The third is in a museum, somewhere.

The Dulles Udvar Hazy Hangar (Smithsonian), Saw it there when the museum opened.

[Holden McGroin]

Check this out Chairboy:

An excellent read for anyone on this BBS, and where I got my info

Rich, Ben R, and Janos, Leo; Skunk Works 1994 Little Brown and Co., Boston MA

[Skuzzy]

Here is some history of the A-12.
===
The A-12 is the forerunner of the SR-71 and has nearly the same shape and dimensions as its replacement. Designed to replace the U-2, the A-12 flew higher and four times as fast to outrun enemy defenses and gather intelligence. The A-12 is primarily an over flight vehicle unlike the SR-71. Its major advantages in capabilities to the SR-71 include its higher-resolution photography and its ability to go marginally faster (Mach 3.3) than the SR-71. However, the SR-71 was chosen as successor to the A-12 due to its side-looking radar and cameras, allowing it to gather important reconnaissance data without penetrating enemy airspace.
This is a photo of the A-12, from Lockheed.

Here is the historical timeline of the A-12
===
24 December 1957: First J58 engine run.
21 April 1958: First mention of ARCHANGEL in Kelly Johnson's dairy.
December 1958: CIA requests funding for a Mach 3+ reconnaissance aircraft.
29 August 1959: Lockheed and Convair each propose a plan for a Mach 3+ reconnaissance aircraft.
14 September 1959: CIA awards first ARCHANGEL research contract to Lockheed.
26 January 1960: CIA orders twelve A-12 aircraft.
February 1960: Lockheed begins the search for 24 pilots for the A-12.
1 May 1960: Francis Gary Powers is shot down in a U-2 over the Soviet Union.
26 February 1962: First A-12 leaves Skunk Works in Burbank for Groom Lake by truck.
25 April 1962: First flight of the prototype A-12 (#06924) with Lockheed test pilot Lou Schalk.
30 April 1962: First "official" flight of A-12 (#06924) with Lockheed test pilot Lou Schalk.
2 May 1962: A-12 goes supersonic for first time during second test flight.
30 July 1962: J58 completes pre-flight testing.
5 October 1962: A-12 flies with J75 (in left nacelle) and J58 (in right nacelle) engines.
15 January 1963: A-12 first flight with two J58 engines.
24 May 1963: First A-12 crashes (#06926) near Wendover, UT.
20 July 1963: First A-12 flight over Mach 3.
November 1963: A-12 reaches design speed and altitude.
3 February 1964: A-12 cruises at Mach 3.2 and 83,000 feet for 10 minutes.
June 1964: Final A-12 (#06939) delivered to Groom Lake.
27 January 1965: A-12 flown for one hour and 40 minutes above Mach 3.1 for a distance of 3,000 miles.
28 December 1966: Decision is made to conclude A-12 operations by 1 June 1968.
22 May 1967: First A-12 (#06937) flown to Kadena AB by CIA pilot Mel Vojovodich.
29 May 1967: BLACK SHIELD unit declared operational at Kadena AB.
31 May 1967: First A-12 (#06937) operational mission over North Vietnam lasted 3 hours, 39 minutes.
3 November 1967: A-12 and SR-71 conduct a reconnaissance fly-off. Results were questionable.
23 January 1968: First A-12 overflight of North Korea during Pueblo incident with CIA pilot Frank Murray.
8 May 1968: Last A-12 operational mission flown.
5 June 1968: Last A-12 (#06932) to crash,  lost in the South China Sea.

[Chairboy]

I've got it, the Skunk Works book is great.  Very poignant scene where Kelly is in the limo at the unveilling of the last plane he worked on.

[Holden McGroin]

My favorite passage in that book is one of the "Other Voices"

It talks of a mission from England to the Bekka Valley.  France would not allow overflight, so they got a couple of refuels and flew via the straight of Gibralter.  On the way back they had an indication of a problem with one engine so flew subsonic.  The pilot made the choice to return over France anyway due to the concern.

When in French airspace a mirage came up along side and asked for the clearance identification number, and the pilot asked the backseater what the hell they were going to say and the backseater told the pilot to put the spurs to her, he just handsignaled their number (like English bowmen did)to the French pilot.

The were in England in a few minutes.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
Here is some history of the A-12.
===
The A-12 is the forerunner of the SR-71 and has nearly the same shape and dimensions as its replacement. Designed to replace the U-2, the A-12 flew higher and four times as fast to outrun enemy defenses and gather intelligence. The A-12 is primarily an over flight vehicle unlike the SR-71. Its major advantages in capabilities to the SR-71 include its higher-resolution photography and its ability to go marginally faster (Mach 3.3) than the SR-71. However, the SR-71 was chosen as successor to the A-12 due to its side-looking radar and cameras, allowing it to gather important reconnaissance data without penetrating enemy airspace.
....

Okay... I didn't realize there were two aircraft with the same designation.



http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/a-12.htm

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Nefarious
The Dulles Udvar Hazy Hangar (Smithsonian), Saw it there when the museum opened.

We've got it now. It's parked in the most unusual of places... on the flight deck of an Essex Class Carrier docked in NYC.



I don't think I'd wanna be the LSO on that landing.