Proof from HTC that Hispanos are accurate. plz dont ignore

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by Westy:
I agree that no 20mm or .50 calibre should be able to take out an armoured vehicle like a Panzer. It should be able to disable an Osty's guns and waste the M16 or M3 for sure.

 NOw. About the screen shot. Isn;t dispersion the cone of fire your shot makes? What I see above is dispersion jst about even. However the Hispano's go straight much further while gravity takes it's effect on the MG's. Then again. The Hispano's had alot more velocity didn't they?

-Westy

Look at the tracer trails from the nose hub, and the gondolas. The Hispano has a much denser pattern (which is right because of simular ROF and an extra cannon) However, nearly every shell path has went through the dot. A majority at the bottom, and some in the middle and top.

The MG151 is spread out above the gunsight, below it, and two the sides. As you can see very few of the shells of the hub touched the dot judging by the tracer shells. Having this high dispersion in the gondolas are understandable, but the spraying of the nose guns (It's on the 38 too) is very strange.

The images are grainy for size purposes, but you can easily try and compare by doing what I did and compare yourself  

Needless to say that hub cannons sprays everywhere.

Btw I'm not saying this isn't historic, (have no proof either way) but that it's different.




[This message has been edited by Jigster (edited 12-15-2000).]

[funked]

Try it for the inner 190 cannons and Spit cannons.  Those are almost identical installations.

[-ammo-]

 

Originally posted by Vermillion:


Just ask Ammo   I shredded his P47 from 300 yesterday with a single 1 second burst.

Yup, I must agree that those "anemic mausers" seem to do there job when they hit my AC...maybe its just MY particular P-47

As far as verm is concerned, he's on my hunt list now

<S>

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by funked:
Try it for the inner 190 cannons and Spit cannons.  Those are almost identical installations.

Wouldn't that be the outter pair?

The Spit's cannons are line up perfectly with the 190's outter pair in the AH Hanger.

I can run it using two very different convergence setting son the 190.

[Jigster]

   

The FW looks good, very little dispersion till after touching the aiming point. Spit sprays like a shot gun.

That's rather odd. Looks like weight plays an enormous roll in dispersion (i.e. recoil ) in AH.

However, this doesn't work out with the P-38. Even with only ONE cannon and at @ 15,500lbs the P-38 sprays just as much the hub MG 151 on the 109. Go figure. The 38 also has it's nose anchored (unlike 109) Guess this might be what the fix in the next patch is?

[This message has been edited by Jigster (edited 12-15-2000).]

[funked]

Is that at default zoom?  Note that the gunsight size is different.  Apples to oranges.

[juzz]

Yeah, but the apples are always overmodelled.

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by funked:
Is that at default zoom?  Note that the gunsight size is different.  Apples to oranges.

Thats at max zoom on all planes, otherwise there's no detail.

Use the gunsight for a reference not as a definate boundry. Notice how much the tracer paths are seperated from plane to plane...

Use F5 and zoom out behind the planes, and make screen shots of that if you won't except it this way, sheesh.

[funked]

Thx Jig, nice work.

[Jekyll]

 

Show me a film of a sortie where you get kills at that distance. Please. Do you have any idea how many times I've asked that question and not had a single film show up?

Then with all due respect Lephturn, you must have been asleep at the time.

I posted a film a couple of months ago whereby I nailed a Mustang at 1000 yds with my convergence set to 300.  Anyone who seriously contends that long range gunnery in AH is NOT a joke is either asleep at the wheel or has their own reasons for wanting this idiocy to continue  

 

Leave it to RAM to spend 1/2 a page rambling and ad aboslutely nothing to the conversation.
No RAM, nobody is cutting Grunherz up. I dispute some of his claims, but not him. In fact I welcome the discussion, I think it helps clear a few things up.

BTW, nobody else is going to get treated the way you do. No one else is willing to post that much drivel... they just don't have the time to build that kind of a reputation.

BTW Leph, what was the point of your above post?  First you rag on RAM for 'half a page of rambling' then you follow with a post which adds nothing to the discussion and even less to your reputation.

If you've got a point - make it.  If all you are interested in is character assasination - try AGW.



[This message has been edited by Jekyll (edited 12-15-2000).]

[Nath-BDP]

Those pix don't realy explain what I'm talking about. Fire some MG 151 then Hispanos, watch how the MG 151 spray all over, the Hispanos stay closer together.

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by Nath-BDP:
Those pix don't realy explain what I'm talking about. Fire some MG 151 then Hispanos, watch how the MG 151 spray all over, the Hispanos stay closer together.

Like this?
 http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum9/HTML/001176.html

[Nath-BDP]

yup

[Pongo]

 

Originally posted by hazed-:
I have been killed at these distances. dont try and claim grunhertz is imagining things.
why is it i dont see spits ot typhoons hitting me at these distances?  

Something has to be done on this.
If Htc posted their info the arguements would end.
CALL ME PARANOID OR WHATEVER..
but my personal veiw is the cosair being the favourite of the americans has had the most favourable specs modeled.Nowhere have i personally read accounts of its amazing ability to perform so well.Ive have read accounts by pilots stateing that it was big,heavy,fast and hard hitting (with .50s in the article) Pilots talked of keeping fast and 'never' turning with the enemy.
we have the F4c model!
200 odd made but freely available in AH.
The hispanos were good guns from what ive read but in the same book there was a bold statement about the german 30mm being able to totally destroy an aircraft with 1 round! There are no such stories of the hispano.
All the books ive read over the years have given me my view on aircraft/weapons etc and I have always had the impression that the LW aircraft were ahead of their time and superior in performance (at different stages)but were in short supply (late in war)and so ineffectual.Well we are not short of supply/numbers in AH so why isnt everyone flying them? because they are considerably poorer in performance than thier allied counterparts(in AH with possible niki exception).
Hispanos were good i accept..better than mg151? not according to the pilots that faced mg151's and if anything there is more mentions of jams with hispanos than praise of their ability to hit at extreme range.

So PLEASE someone show me where is this FABLED DATA???what do you people base your statements on? have you ever flown these planes? fired the guns? i very much doubt it...so show us where you learned the info

I was thinking that when the perk system arrives how about we make any aircraft with a lower than 400 production a perk plane?
Id be happy(!) to be shot with overmodelled guns if i knew the guy flying them had earned a flight in it.I'd overlook the fact that i think they are lasers.

hazed

Hazed the numbers that make the Hispano supperior to the other cannons have been posted many times. The test flights that show that the allied aircraft were often supperior to the german ones have been on the record in your country for over 50 years.
Right on paper it is easy to see that the Hispano is supperior to the 151 in range accureacy and hitting power. But there is no historical evidence that it had the kill at range ability that the AH Hispano still has.
This indicates to me that it is not more data on the hispano that Pyro needs but further variables in the gunnery engine.
The proposal that Pyro made about changeing the dispersal of rounds might make a huge difference.
The range counter is an issue
There is no real reason for a player to be told the exact range to the yard of an enemy plane ever. have a 1k 2k 3k indicator. A 500+ indicator and a 200+ indicator. Then the disadvantage of the sim representation for range finding is overcome but not at the expence of providing better then laser range finding on every plane within a 4k range.
Imagine how borring the tank game would be if we had range to ground targets....hits out too 3.5k....all the time.

[Karnak]

I'm still fond of my solution for the range icons.

Have the ID range the same as it is now, or slightly shorter.

Replace the range number with "+"s and "-"s to give a crude indication of how fast you are closing on the target or how fast he is extending.

For example, a 190 that you were quickly overtaking would be displayed as follows:

190
++++

A Typhoon that was slowly extending from you would be displayed like:

Typh
-

A Yak that is neither extending much or closing much would simply be displayed as:

Yak


A Spitfire that you are gaining on at a moderate rate would be:

Spit
++

A P-51 extending at a moderate rate would be:

P51
--


What do you guys think?
Would that solve the range number as firing solution indicater problem?

Sisu
-Karnak