Author Topic: And pigs will fly  (Read 4025 times)

Offline Silat

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And pigs will fly
« on: November 08, 2005, 08:35:45 PM »
http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/11/08/evolution.debate.ap/index.html


WTG REPS>>>All six of those who voted for the new standards were Republicans. Two Republicans and two Democrats voted no.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2005, 08:39:22 PM by Silat »
+Silat
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Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2005, 08:42:10 PM »
My favorite part, they also legislate that they don't have to use science to explain things, they can say magic if they want.
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Offline Delirium

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« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2005, 08:51:08 PM »
No matter what is taught in the classroom, some of it will not be acceptable to the parents of students; sex, politics, religion, creation, and numerous others.

It is impossible to legislate every aspect that can be covered in a classroom.

Oh, and I almost forgot... BOTH sides (liberals and conservatives, Republicans and Democrats) are miserable individuals that want to stifle independent thought that does not closely resemble their own.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2005, 08:53:12 PM by Delirium »
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Offline moot

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« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2005, 08:57:57 PM »
As long as they don't outlaw common sense, flying pigs don't stand a chance.
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Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2005, 08:58:16 PM »
Evolution does not need to be protected from other theories.

It should be able to stand on its own, why do you guys fear an alternative being taught next to it?

(I am not a creationist BTW)

Offline Silat

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« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2005, 08:59:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Delirium
No matter what is taught in the classroom, some of it will not be acceptable to the parents of students; sex, politics, religion, creation, and numerous others.

It is impossible to legislate every aspect that can be covered in a classroom.

Oh, and I almost forgot... BOTH sides (liberals and conservatives, Republicans and Democrats) are miserable individuals that want to stifle independent thought that does not closely resemble their own.



True enough Del. But this is RepFanaticChristians that are doing this.
+Silat
"The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them." — Maya Angelou
"Conservatism offers no redress for the present, and makes no preparation for the future." B. Disraeli
"All that serves labor serves the nation. All that harms labor is treason."

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2005, 09:24:19 PM »
Evolution is not a proven fact, so it shouldn't be taught as the only possibility.

To support Evolution, you almost have to support an array of things like:

1. all matter exploded out of nothing and created itself and the universe. (how scientific is this?)

2. the earth formed, and by pure chance, an evironment formed which could sustain life

3. life forms at random and just happens to have a waiting environment which can sustain it and feed it.

4. life not only survives, but has the means to reproduce  itself and eventually evolve into humans. If the first life form had died before reproducing, that would mean that a different life form came into existance at another time, then was able to survive and reproduce.

What are the odds that,
   a. the first life form survived and reproduced?
   b. multiple life forms kept popping into existance until one was lucky enough to survice, then reproduce?  

Sorry, but the giant leaps of faith needed to believe that the perfect chain of miraculous events all happened in order for humans and life to exist is just as good as saying it was all magic.


I believe evolution has happened within species, but that's it. No way do I believe that life formed by itself and morphed into humans and everything else.

Intelligent design is just as viable an angle for pursuing answers to these events, and it should be taught. Evolution and the big bang cannot be explained by any science. The big bang defies the "laws" of physics that are being taught.

An intelligent creator is just as viable a scenario as saying that all matter created itself out of nothing, then exploded and became what is now our universe and all life within it.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2005, 09:27:56 PM by NUKE »

Offline moot

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« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2005, 09:51:31 PM »
ID just smacks of anthropomorphism and argument from ignorance, but that's just my instinct.
What matters is advancement, to advance you need predictability, to predict you need understanding, and to me ID seems to just black-box a lot of things.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2005, 09:54:28 PM by moot »
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Offline john9001

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« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2005, 09:53:23 PM »
Intelligent design is not a proven fact.

Offline moot

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« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2005, 09:58:21 PM »
Nuke, where's the credibility and use of admiting something you cannot prove?
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Offline NUKE

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« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2005, 09:59:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by moot
Nuke, where's the credibility and use of admiting something you cannot prove?


exactly.

Offline moot

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« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2005, 10:05:36 PM »
There's something fishy about ID and I can't prove it yet, but since you're an old branch anyway, you won't mind me taking my time to figure it out before getting back to you.. :D
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Offline NUKE

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« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2005, 10:10:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by moot
ID just smacks of anthropomorphism and argument from ignorance, but that's just my instinct.
What matters is advancement, to advance you need predictability, to predict you need understanding, and to me ID seems to just black-box a lot of things.


Okay, lets start with the big bang, because this is the ultimate starting point for the origins of life.

Science teaches that all of the matter/energy in the universe was gathered at one infinatey small, infinate mass point refered to as the sigularity. It one day exploded and formed into our universe.

Now where did this energy or matter come from? Any scientific answer? Even a hint of a clue by science? There are only two possibilities for the origin of matter.
   1. it created itself from nothing
   2. something created it.
3. it always existed

See anything wrong so far?

Seems like some people take great comfort in a scientific answer, yet there isn't one. There's not even a basis for an explanation. The laws of physics are ignored.

People have no problem thinking that all the matter in the universe exploded into existance from nothing one day, yet have the gall to tell others, who leave open the possibility of a supreme intelligence, that they are being ignorant.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2005, 10:15:05 PM by NUKE »

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2005, 10:49:44 PM »
sand

Offline moot

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« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2005, 10:53:57 PM »
We don't have to go even that far.
Leaps of faith aren't invalid. But they aren't valid either, as far as said advance is concerned, because they aren't rational.  If they aren't rational, they can't be predicted, etc.
ID feels like a leap of faith to me, but I'm not done thinking and reading to conclude that yet.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2005, 10:56:19 PM by moot »
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