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Author Topic: And pigs will fly  (Read 4016 times)

Offline NUKE

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And pigs will fly
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2005, 12:00:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
Only a religious fanatic could read Einstein and come up with 'supreme intelligence'.

Or a troll.

Or both.



You need to see some quotes? Einstein stated more than once that he believed in a supreme intelligence who was responsible for the universe.

And it is perfectly logical.
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Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2005, 12:15:45 AM »
Nuke,

Not related directly to this but interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clockmaker_hypothesis

For this discussion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_foam and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_bounce

This is one of the universe creation hypothesis that I'm studying right now.  It might be wrong, but in the end, it's possible to find that out through experimentation, and that's good.  The problem with religious creation stories is that they cannot be tested, they require faith and that makes them no more reliable than Flying Spaghettism.
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Offline Skilless

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« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2005, 12:26:32 AM »
I think the hardest thing for the human mind to admit or understand (which is evident by these debates), is that we don't know where we came from or where we are going.  All prospects are a leap of faith.
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Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2005, 12:32:36 AM »
Not true.  Faith stops when experimentation can show answers.  Something that religionists conveniently gloss over.
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Offline moot

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« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2005, 12:32:58 AM »
:lol What planet are you from?
Chairboy, I think he means it in a Cartesian sense..
As in, causality was never really proved, so everything "taken for granted by science" at the moment, is liable to change at any later moment.
And in that sense, science is a leap of faith, but to choose, at that scale of things, a knowingly irrational model over a rational one as a means of prediction is absurd.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2005, 12:38:15 AM by moot »
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Offline Skilless

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« Reply #35 on: November 09, 2005, 12:38:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
Not true.  Faith stops when experimentation can show answers.  Something that religionists conveniently gloss over.

You cannot tell me one thing that science shows that absolutely proves evolution or the big bang.  And you certainly cannot disprove creationism.

By the way, Moot is correct.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2005, 12:55:28 AM by Skilless »
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Offline NUKE

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« Reply #36 on: November 09, 2005, 12:40:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
Not true.  Faith stops when experimentation can show answers.  Something that religionists conveniently gloss over.


My faith has never stopped when experimentation has shown answers. In fact, science verifies my faith. Nothing proven by science has ever contradicted my faith.

However, science has many unproven assumptions that are being taught s as being fact. The Big Bang and evolution are not supported by facts, yet are being taught as the *only* rational explanation for the existance of the universe and all life.
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Offline moot

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« Reply #37 on: November 09, 2005, 12:48:24 AM »
No Nuke, they're considered the *best* so far, it's a work in progress.
When you build your model planes, you tend towards a replication of the real thing, but in the mean time, they're a work in progress; you can't call one "Von Crash und Bangen's fw190" till all the details match the real one's.
But even then it won't be the real CuB fw190, just a scale model.

Likewise theories are just ideas, mime constructs in our model space.
ID is flawed even at that ideal level because of its irrationalities.
Whether a theory is crackpot or founded in facts and reasoning really doesn't matter, as long as it produces accurate predictions.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2005, 12:55:54 AM by moot »
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Offline Skilless

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« Reply #38 on: November 09, 2005, 12:51:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
My faith has never stopped when experimentation has shown answers. In fact, science verifies my faith. Nothing proven by science has ever contradicted my faith.

However, science has many unproven assumptions that are being taught s as being fact. The Big Bang and evolution are not supported by facts, yet are being taught as the *only* rational explanation for the existance of the universe and all life.


Every scientific discussion about the origin of life in  the classroom should begin with, "we don't really know", or, "it's believed that"....  To do otherwise is to turn science into a religion unto itself.

To adhere to the "invisible man in the sky" ideology is just as absurd as saying that the scientific explaination of how life came into existance as it is known right now is an absolute.

Better to admit that we don't really know and to strive for the answers.
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Offline FiLtH

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« Reply #39 on: November 09, 2005, 12:57:29 AM »
ALthough I am a Christian,  Iwould think anywhere in the universe where there is a tepid pool of water, that maintains a temp suitable to life as we know it, could produce lifeforms. Its all about time. With space, thats all there is. Is there a rock close to a star, in a proper orbit to maintain a suitable temperature? Well theres gotta be billions of rocks around stars..odds are theres gotta be a couple that do. Do any have water? If not, after enough time something containing water will likely hit it. Again..time.

    The deep sea holds life no man had seen before deep sea tech came around. Why is it there? Maybe to keep man interested while hes here. Why limit it to this planet? Make other worlds we can explore. Maybe years ago in the time the bible was written, man was to dumb to understand the marvels we see today. So it was hidden. Now we know alot more about life and the universe than anyone back then did.
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Offline NUKE

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« Reply #40 on: November 09, 2005, 12:58:31 AM »
My view is that it is just as reasonable and logical to consider an intelligent creator as it is to consider any other option. That's it.
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Offline Sandman

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« Reply #41 on: November 09, 2005, 01:00:50 AM »
My view is that it's not reason nor logic. It's faith.
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Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2005, 01:01:38 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
My view is that it is just as reasonable and logical to consider an intelligent creator as it is to consider any other option. That's it.
That's called religion, not science.

That's what makes this terrible.  This law mandates teaching religion in public schools.  

No, that's not even the terrible part.  The terrible part is that you honestly just don't get it.  Since it's YOUR religion, you just don't see any problem with this and wish that people like me would go away.

Despicable, and tragic at the same time.
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: And pigs will fly
« Reply #43 on: November 09, 2005, 01:02:48 AM »
Pink Floyd already reunited, Pigs have flown.

Karaya
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Offline NUKE

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« Reply #44 on: November 09, 2005, 01:04:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
That's called religion, not science.

That's what makes this terrible.  This law mandates teaching religion in public schools.  

No, that's not even the terrible part.  The terrible part is that you honestly just don't get it.  Since it's YOUR religion, you just don't see any problem with this and wish that people like me would go away.

Despicable, and tragic at the same time.


Chairboy, flawed science is your religeon. I have an open mind and you do not.
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