Author Topic: And pigs will fly  (Read 4021 times)

Offline Seagoon

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And pigs will fly
« Reply #60 on: November 09, 2005, 01:48:53 AM »
[Seagoon must learn, just quiet the crying child, don't check the AHBBS as well]

Too tired to post anything pithy on this subject (didn't we just go round this particular mulberry bush a month or two ago?)

Ah well, for those of you who want a view of what this decision actually does without the militant materialist spin...

Click Here

(Yes, yes, I know, a think tank made up of philosophers, biochemists, Jews, non-religious individuals not pushing biblical creationism is actually a cover for radical rabid eee-van-jelly-cals to take over the school systems. Man, who is burning who at stake and squelching all theorems that question the reigning paradigm these days...)

Well, back to bed where I should have stayed.... Night all.

- SEAGOON
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #61 on: November 09, 2005, 01:50:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skilless
Quite like the current theory of the origin of life.


Really. Show me the literature where science has claimed to have solved this particular riddle. At this stage, I think it's simply hypothesis.
sand

Offline moot

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« Reply #62 on: November 09, 2005, 01:54:49 AM »
This is all so bogus I don't know where to start :lol
Done for now.
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Offline Skilless

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« Reply #63 on: November 09, 2005, 02:03:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by moot
This is all so bogus I don't know where to start :lol
Done for now.


Yes, of course you are.  The reality is that nothing is an absolute.  Nothing is for sure.  Nothing is real.  Rather sobering isn't it?

Offline Debonair

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« Reply #64 on: November 09, 2005, 02:08:14 AM »
I think the Intellignet Design supporters should try to relabel evolution as "Moronic Design".
Also it is ironic that both side of this debate steroetypicaly have exatly opposite view on economics.
Also I think the existence of both elevators & flatulence rules out Intelligent Design as being truly intelligent

Offline deSelys

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« Reply #65 on: November 09, 2005, 07:46:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Debonair
...Also I think the existence of both elevators & flatulence rules out Intelligent Design as being truly intelligent



LOL they aren't bugs, they are FEATURES!
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #66 on: November 09, 2005, 08:18:41 AM »
I see nothing wrong with schools admitting that countless millions of people believe in ID and.....

Then going on to explain what the theory is.

lazs

Offline parker00

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« Reply #67 on: November 09, 2005, 08:36:06 AM »
Most on here seem to think that the big bang THEORY is fact, well those two terms contradict themselves as a THEORY is not and has not ever been fact. It's just that, a theory, someone's idea of what happen. It is taught in school that they don't know what happen but the most logical THEORY is that it exploded into something like we see today but has evolved over millions of years. Religion on the other hand says this book is correct and if you question it you burn in hell forever. Hmmmm which one seems more logical?


Nuke,

You kept offering a quote from Einstein yet you never provided it, could you?

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #68 on: November 09, 2005, 08:54:33 AM »
The real point is... it doesn't matter if evolution is a fact or a theory. It is and always will be REFUTABLE. Science allows.... no it encourages refutation. Religion cannot have as a basic principle... "there might not be a God". That is why religion cannot be taught in science class.

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #69 on: November 09, 2005, 09:05:07 AM »
You'll find that Nuke, when confronted for facts, becomes very obtuse... even when presented with iorn clad sources complete with footnotes on the subject, he dodges. (see my two footnoted einstein quotes on the subject up-thread)

Good luck. ;)

For my part, I aknowledge I can't comprehend the theory behind 'creation'.. on the other hand I can certainly accept that there's more than one possibility; and based on the thoughtful contemplation by the best brains ever fielded by humanity it's apparent that ID just religious inspired tripe being foisted off as 'scientific theory'.
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Offline Seagoon

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« Reply #70 on: November 09, 2005, 09:35:31 AM »
Hello Midnight,

Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
The real point is... it doesn't matter if evolution is a fact or a theory. It is and always will be REFUTABLE. Science allows.... no it encourages refutation. Religion cannot have as a basic principle... "there might not be a God". That is why religion cannot be taught in science class.


Evolution, as it is currently taught in most schools allows for and encourages no refutation, in fact several science teachers have been jumped on by the ACLU with both feet and at least one was fired when they began assigning articles from mainstream science journals showing the massive holes in the rapidly disintegrating Neo-Darwinist paradigm. How is someone pushing "religion" if they assign an article from say Scientific American showing that the transitional life-forms that Darwin and his followers had faith would be discovered just aren't there, or how the Finch Beaks in the Galapagos return to their normal size after the period of drought is gone, or how there is still no known chemical mechanism for creating the information contained in DNA.

What religion is ID exactly anyway? It shows that evolution, as a paradigm, can no longer "contain" the accumulated data especially in the fields of biochemistry and palentology, and that dogmatically clinging to it in spite of the rapidly accumulating evidence against it is actually a sign that most of the academy has embraced Neo-Darwinism as a religion and have become what Gould called "Neo-Darwinian Fundamentalists" and are philosophically (not scientifically) incapable of accepting change.

What ID proponents have managed to do is simply to make it possible that the old biology textbooks, filled with old and often discredited data will be supplemented by newer scientific material. They have not won the ability to teach Biblical creationism or even introduce the Bible, the Quran, or the Gilgamesh Epic.

As I've pointed out before, even if someone were to accept every proposal advanced by scientists who believe that there really is an irreducable biochemical and physical complexity to the universe and that just as 747s don't get put together by Tornados in the Junk Yard the mathematical odds against even the beginnings of life by spontaneous generation (especially now that we have much better data about the original gasses than Miller was working with) are so close to impossible as to be statistically the same, they wouldn't arrive at Christianity or the Bible.

To say or even conclude that the universe is created from scientific data teaches very little about the creator, it certainly tells us next to nothing about his will for his creation, how he is to be worshipped, whether he is the alone creator or if there are others, and so on. In fact, you can base a much more coherent religion (or anti-religion) on the writings of Darwin and Huxley.

- SEAGOON
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

Offline parker00

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« Reply #71 on: November 09, 2005, 10:42:48 AM »
Quote
there is still no known chemical mechanism for creating the information contained in DNA.



Didn't they just recently (within a few years) figure out how to map DNA, give it some more time and i'm sure they will find you more answers.



Quote
What ID proponents have managed to do is simply to make it possible that the old biology textbooks, filled with old and often discredited data will be supplemented by newer scientific material. They have not won the ability to teach Biblical creationism or even introduce the Bible, the Quran, or the Gilgamesh Epic.



You speak here of old and often discredited data yet you believe everything you read in a book that has never been updated (other than translation) and is well over 1000 years old.  At least science books are updated ever year. Now if your school gets a new copy every year that is another debate.+
« Last Edit: November 09, 2005, 10:45:45 AM by parker00 »

Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #72 on: November 09, 2005, 10:55:37 AM »
Without dipping too far back into this excercise of the mutual admiration society, an article of interest:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05313/603128.stm

The school board members that pushed the 'intelligent design' cruft into the curriculum have been voted out of their jobs.  Good news for Kansas, and a loud message that idiot extremists can't always control the agenda.
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Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #73 on: November 09, 2005, 11:01:50 AM »
First of all your 747 argument and all the others that point out the huge odds against something happening are just silly math. It happened. So the odds can't be that high. The odds of me talking to a guy named SEAGOON are 1 in 8,031,810,176. Wait a minute... there aren't that many people in the world.... Impossible!

Offline Skilless

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« Reply #74 on: November 09, 2005, 11:22:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
First of all your 747 argument and all the others that point out the huge odds against something happening are just silly math. It happened. So the odds can't be that high. The odds of me talking to a guy named SEAGOON are 1 in 8,031,810,176. Wait a minute... there aren't that many people in the world.... Impossible!


In an infinate universe there are infinite possibilities.  Including the possibility of intelligent design.