Pullin' The Plug

[AKFokerFoder+]

To RAM:

We execute terrorists in the USA.  I don't care how "noble" the cause.  Good riddence to rubbish.

I was in Croatia and Bosina in 1993 as a civilian with the UN Protection Forces. I saw how civilized you Europeans are.    I remember watching the Serbs seal off Serajevo (around the 7 or so of July 93)  We could see them fighting on Mount Igman.  I saw the Bihac pocket, Visoko, Kakanj, Buscovaca, (my spelling may not be 100%) Vitez and a buncha other places.

I say hang terrorists of any persuasion, in the US.  If you want to make heros of them that is you choice.  Twice last century Americans had to go into Europe to clean up your mess.  And we have troops in Kosovo as I write this.  Lets see you have Nazis elected in Austria.

Yep, bet we stupid, ignorant, gun toten red necks are gonna have to go into Europe soon to clean up your kee rap again.

We have lots of fights with the Canadians, but those are on the Hockey Ice.  The Mexicans aren't a threat, we just try to slow down the illegal immigrants.

You make your bombers heros, we hang ours.  Hmmm and we have fewer terrorists than you do.  May be a corelation?

[This message has been edited by AKFokerFoder+ (edited 08-13-2000).]

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+:
You make your bombers heros, we hang ours.  Hmmm and we have fewer terrorists than you do.  May be a corelation?

Maybe I have expressed myself bad, but I think it is not the case here,and that you have read bad my message, or refused at all to read it complete...go and read it again and then come back here, please.

I DONT MAKE A BOMBER AN HERO!. But there are people in HB (the political branch of ETA) who does. The only chance of survival of HB/ETA is to make some people here think that they are opressed by the spanish government, so making "legal" the terrorism ETA does. This is utterly crap, pure toejam...but unfortunately there are people who believes them. And as long as there are people voting HB and supporting ETA there will be terrorism in this country.

IF you start hanging ETA terrorist they will idolize them and make them icons to adore. They will affirm then that Spanish government assasins Basque heros and they will be stronger on their points of view,as people who believe in them will do it stronger.

90% of the people here doesnt believe that kind toejam. But some 10% does and that is enough to make ETA keep on killing bombing and terrorizing.And dont tell me that it is a difficult thing to believe. In 1935 in Germany, much more percentage of people thought that Germans were a superior race. In year 1950 in US people thought that communist people were devils...

And in year 2000 some people still thinks that death penalty is a good way to stop historical-origined terrorism.

All those things are IMO much more difficult to believe than ETA's lies. And those lies also succeeded.

As a last word I'll tell you that I think you believe that I support those bunch of SOBs.That is a direct and personal insult, for you are calling me terrorist (he who support terrorists is IMO a terrorist too). I will regard it as a misread of my post, and forget about it. I hope you read my original post ENTIRE and then post your thoughts. And maybe you change your point of view about me.

 I hate that scum so much as noone can. I live in the land they say they "defend" and "Fight for". It is crap. It is toejam. It is senseless...but it happens. I am ashamed of my land having such crap people here. But I am proud that the major part of the basque people are actively fighting against them, and always with pacific ways and peace in front.

Ah BTW if your measurement of Europe "civilization" is Ex-yugoslavia then you have a lot to learn about us, sir.

 

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-13-2000).]

[Toad]

Where was it World War I started again?

<G,D,R>

[StSanta]

Well, you see,e very nation has to go through its own years of raping and pillaging. In the case of Denmark, we did it 1000 years ago; and we were actually doing the world a favour, as we bugged the French and Brits.

They got their turn a bit later on, and now it's the turn of the US. Only they've not manage to quite keep it outside their own borders. Either that, or they think it's so amusing they want something near home too  



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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime

[Toad]

Gee, nobody answered!

It was Sarajevo!

Of course, since then things have really calmed down in that region. Nothing but peace, love and brotherhood in that area now, right?

[StSanta]

That area has been a hotspot through history, and will remain so for a very long time.

Not sure what you're saying; you're saying that the Balkans are part of Europe, therefore Europe is a violent place (cut out in black and white)?



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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime

[Maverick]

This has gone on for a long time of posting. There has been everything from reasoned argument to disection of the argument with quotes out of context to nationalistic ferver. Not to mention a fair amount of gratuitous U.S. bashing.

HHHMM where to start.

Well, lets try this.

I have had my life threatened and my family as well. Not because I did something wrong, but because I had the temerity to wear a badge and work as a Police Officer. One of those who threatened me tried to do the deed. He tried to repeatedly (3 times) stick a knife in me. The only reason I am here is that it was a broad blade (dull too) knife that was able to be stopped by my bullet proof vest. On search AFTER I finally got him cuffed I covered the trunk lid of a patrol car with edged and pointed weapons that were on this person. Yep he was a "street person" and it was winter so he had on plenty of clothing with pockets.

This individual was released 3 weeks later without ever having gone to trial. Why?? He was able to convince a Psychologist that he was looney. The shrink recomended release as the person really couldn't be guilty since he was crazy and after all, he wasn't a danger to himself or others.

 This same individual was later found sleeping in a vacant house. When the Police Officer tried to wake him up the transient came up swinging a 2" by 4" board about 4 feet long and knocked the flashlight out of the Officers hand. Since the Officer was backlit from the doorway the transient could see him but the transint was in deep shadow. The Officer tried to defend himself but had to back out of the house. A police dog was sent in to te house and the transient almost killed the dog. The dog required some serious treatment and was unable to return to duty. It took a large dose of tear gas and pepper spray to get this person out of the house and under arrest. Thgere were additional minor injuries to the Officers.

For two attempted murders of police officers and injury to a police dog this individual was taken to the hospital for psychiatric evaluation. He was released about 2 months later and left the area.

Had I shot this scumbag the second assault would never have happened. I didn't shoot him as we were in the middle of a park and I felt the bullet would have gone through this guy and hit someone else. I still wonder if I did the right thing.

Another case. We had an individual who had killed a few people in the course of some robberies. He was convicted and sentenced to life since he didn't get heinious enough in the commission of the murders. Later he was visited by his two sones. They were able to smuggle a weapon into the prison and "broke him out". During the escape the felons  carjacked a family on the highway. They killed a family of 4 after raping the wife. The man hunt did turn them up. The "father" who started this died of exposure in the desert. One of the sons was wounded and captured the other died in a gun battle with Police.

If "daddy" had been executed to begin with that family of four would still be alive.

Do I believe in capital punishment. You bet! Unlike the vast majority of those posting here, I have met some of those "innocents" on death row. I do not want them out, EVER. I want them where there is an iron clad guarantee they will not hurt others again. There is only one way to do that.

The people in prison are by far very un nice folks. Yes I am sure one or two would be real nice people if they didn't rape, or rob. or kill. Yes there are some there on drug charges. If they were selling that crap to others then they deserve to be there. In this state (Arizona) you do not go to PRISON for minor possession of pot. You go to prison for dealing in pot when you sell a significant amount. Personally I want those who sell drugs to youngsters and kids in jail.

I saw some news about justice in Europe. Britain to be exact. It seems there was this
young lady who came to the U.S. as an AU Pair (not sure of spelling). She was trusted with the care of an infant. She killed the child. It didn't die of neglect, it was murdered. As she was going through the criminal justice system there was a tremendous outpouring of protest from the "civilized" European community that we would DARE prosecute a "child" (18 I believe) for such an offense. the British Government got into it and for some reason the U.S. agreed to send this "child" back to her home. Is she in a British prison? Nope. The British justice system has no jurisdiction over the crime so they CAN'T punish her. She got away with murdering a helpless infant. She wasn't rich, she wasn't victimized, she was a damn killer of a baby. Nice example of "civilized" European justice. I understand now that her poor old daddy was arrested for robbery recently. I suppose he'll get spanked and sent home without his supper.

The final thing I want to say on this same subject is the release of the killers from British prisons. I understand that some people in Ireland feel that they have had a "war" going on with Britain over who is governing that part of the empire. It seems to me that bombing markets in a civilian area where there are no "enemy" troops are is hardly civilized. Car bombs in civilain areas the same. I guess they aren't totally stupid because if they did attack the British Army directly they would get their tulips handed to them. It's far better to blow up civilians, they can't shoot back. Oh and lets not forget throwing grenades and shooting unarmed mourners in a cemetary, yeah that's real civilized too. And what is the stated reason for killing them? They were Catholic, or they were Protestant. Yeah man you can't go wrong killing in God's name can you. After all those other folks are just heathen Christians aren't they. Later they can make an "agreement" that you won't do it again so the British will just let you out of jail. I'm glad I don't live there.

Yep, Europe has had a long and glorious history killing each other. It's so nice to know that they have stopped doing that type of thing now and are civilized. Of course the Basque situation that RAM posted and the minor disagreement in the former Yugoslavia don't count. After all Europe is so civilized now. That means they can criticize the U.S. and feel all smug about it. After all the U.S. has had only 200 years or so of growing into the country it is now. Why, we just don't have all the experiance that the Europeans do in the 1500+ years of killing each other for varied reasons. We can't possibly as civilized as they are.

A note on intollerance.

If you don't like the U.S., fine. Why don't you start your own game and or BBS and vacate this American one if  Americans are so "ugly". I have found numerous posts from Europeans with a very negative slant. I found no unprovoked posts discrediting the current European governments. Methinks there are plenty of "ugly europeans" posting here.
I have never posted any negative comment on any of these threads against a modern European government or society but I have seen plenty from Europeans dumping on America. I am tired of the trash talk. Kindly keep your trash home please.

Mav

Long post but I got more than a little ticked over the innuendo and outright garbage being posted. People, if you have never been on the "front lines" of dealing with the criminal element of ANY society, you have no right to speak as an expert.

[Naso]

Maverick,

calm down, take it easy.  

About your note on intollerance, i feel the need to answer:

I have many american friends, and i use to have the same discussions, without any bashing, simply trying to analize problems and differences, and this go both ways.
I never said i dont like US people, i dont like some aspect of US culture, in the same manner i dont like many aspects of Italian culture, and when and where you want, i am open to discuss about our problems, the same manner we just discussed about yours, without the need to defend my country just because "wrong or right, is my country".

Talking about tollerance, you stated:
 

Why don't you start your own game and or BBS and vacate this American one if Americans are so "ugly".

I understud this was an Internet game and bbs, and for my believings, internet (thank God) is overnational, free, and worldwide.
I dont knew to play this game and to post in this BBS i had to be an US citizen (world is your property, uh?   ).
If i am wrong, and if HTC dont want external-US customers, let them say this, and i will go, no problem.

As you stated, there are Ugly Americans and Ugly Europeans, nothink new in this, we already knew it, we never said the opposite.

Let's try to discuss as nice people, with rational argumentations and, why not?, little bit of irony here and there.

Peace and love brother, we are on the same rolling ball travelling in a vacuum space, and the modern technology permit people so far (but in reality so near), to speak with each other and to exchange points of wiew, this is a great occasion to evolve, all of us, over the little jails the borders are.  

Last, about the "front line", been there done that, and (ushh, wispering) both sides  .

Naso

[StSanta]

To keep the thread alive; I'll add this. It's a standard piece of discussion between an Ugly American and a Poor Innocent Foreigner.

UA: "Uh, yeah, and thank God that we saved them that time too. If it wasn't for us, the whole WORLD would be a cesspool of tyranny and opression"

PIF: "Well, I don't believe that is entirely your doing. And it seems to me that the US has some major problems that most other western industrialized countries do not."

UA: "What the HELL are you talking about?!? We SAVED your butt during WWI and II, so you shut the hell up. We ain't got no problem. Am I talking TRASH about YOUR country?"

PIF: "Err, I am not talking trash. I am just pointing out that all is not perfect in that country of yours and that your nationalism might have clouded your judgement. In fact, some things are worse than in places of comparative wealth and technology. Go ahead and trash talk my nation, if you will; I do not have the same nationalistic feelings as you do. I could explain why."

UA: "What the HELL! <gets out gun> Well, you pinkie little Euro liberal, love it or LEAVE it. We all know you Euros are nothing but conformist. At least HERE we have REAL freedom! Now go away and come crying when WWIII starts. BTW; isn't the Balkans Europe? It IS, so shut the foohicky up"

PIF: "Uh. As I said, places of comparative wealth and technology. And don't you mean "diddly"?

UA: "Why you nasty little dirty bugger! That sorta talk will RUIN our kids. Shut your ears young man <slaps son over the head with backside of hand>. Go watch some violence on TV instead, it's better than all that openness towards sex those pinkies are trying to promote"

<enters an Italian and a French>

Italian: "Wella, my deare friendes. Dere ees no need far deesa harda words, eh?"

<enters a Million March Mum>
MMM: "Yeah, let's all be friends"

French guy: "Aaah mon ami <throws hands in air>, I cannot be frriends wid zat morron! He is AMERRICAN!"

UA: <gunshots> Weeell, better dead than red, Frenchie boy.

Italian: "Buta Mr Ugly American! You shot MMM!"

PIF: "Uh, that was my cue. I hear there are commies on the east coast, Mr UA.

"Well, I'll be damned! Once again we save the world. Now SHUTTHEHELLUP while we export our culture to the rest of the world along with the idea that we're the greatest nation in all respects ever."

PIF: "I see we shall be having more talks"

<Frenchman, from under a table>: "Wat, you haveen't capitulated YET? Here, borrow my white flag."


 
 

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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime

[Naso]

ROTFL !!!  

Very interesting scene, i am amazed how you manage to fit the entire summa of the "Ugly American Style" in a short comedy, you are an artist !!  

[JimBear]

Yawn

[Staga]

wtg Santa, Give 'em hell !  

I left lots of dirty words out of this text because someone could take them as a insult and yell to his family.
At least nobody can't blame me now  

btw:
I heard a story about a Finnish guy who bought a house from Florida. He was talking with his neighbour who asked did this guy have a insurance for his lawn. Guy asked why the hell should he have that ?
Neighbour told that if some tresspasser fall down on the lawn and got some "pain in the neck  " that trespasser could sue the owner and claim some money (uhh.. Million?)

Maybe another "urban story"  

[JimBear]

 

[This message has been edited by JimBear (edited 08-18-2000).]

[AKDejaVu]

Wow st. santa.  Keep this up and you'll prove that Europeans hate the US almost as much as they hate each other.

AKDejaVu

[AKFokerFoder+]

Well first of all it is so transparent what you think of us, no big deal.

Most of your European countries are smaller than out states.  It blew my mind when I found out that Paris to Berlin was only 500 miles (800 km).  I've taken my kids to skating competition that far on a weekend, and didn't think much of it (the distance).  I mean that would be like me being raised in North Dakota (I was), speaking a different language than those in South Dakota, and going to war with them every 30 or 40 years.  It's mind boggling, it really is.   A little speck on the map, but Northern Ireland, they slaughter people on the streets. (don't give me all that kee rap about all their money coming from the US, very few Americans support the IRA)  The Basques go nutso every now and then, the Serbs and Croats are at each others throats. Chechnya is a blood bath, Albania is a powder keg waiting for a spark… this list goes on    

The American people have spent untold fortunes, and over a half a million American lives, trying to keep you Europeans from each others throats. We still have troops in Europe, some in Bosnia, some in Kosovo, Spain, Italy, Germany…  Costs us a lot of bucks.  I mean why aren't there Danish troops in Kosovo???  I'll tell you why, because you won't spend the money, let the Americans do it.  

What are you doing about Nazis being elected in Austria? Nothing, that's what.  I really wonder if you guys really do hate Jews and would like to burn some more.  Your actions speak louder than your putrid words.

You don't have to spend a big chunk of your tax dollars keeping America peaceful.  Yet you think you have the right to get on a BBS and tell us how to run things. You can't clean your own backyard up, but you can sure get on a BBS and call us Ugly Americans.  Tell us how to run our country.  So we can be like Europe?  Have standing Armies at our borders???  Let me tell you that not one rational Canadian or Mexican will go to sleep tonight worried about a military invasion of their country from the US.  Now cultural Empiricism, and trade dominance are another story.

You guys better clean up your act before you pontificate…

You may have noticed that not once have I told you how to run Denmark.  You wanna confiscate guns?. Go for it. You want to elect Nazis? Go for it? You wanna burn books,give you freedoms to the government, go for it.  You want to make heros out of guys who bomb children, go for it. You want to turn your rapists and murders back on the streets, have at it. You run it your way we'll run things ours.

I just concerns me that we Americans have to spend a fortune to keep the lid on Europe.

Ugly American and proud of it.


[This message has been edited by AKFokerFoder+ (edited 08-18-2000).]