Author Topic: any interest in the future of the world in the next 10-20 years buy this book  (Read 1893 times)

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #60 on: December 19, 2005, 01:58:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Jackal1
But.........but.............but...........He is reading a book about it. that will make it all better. :)
Yes! I've just got the chapter which tells you that the answer to everything is to build an orphanage! :rofl

Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #61 on: December 19, 2005, 04:45:47 PM »
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Originally posted by beet1e
Yes! I've just got the chapter which tells you that the answer to everything is to build an orphanage! :rofl


Good. Then you are making progress. :)
I see by your many references to that that you find it quite annoying and amusing that someone would actualy DO something for a cuase they beleive in. That`s good stuff. keep it coming.
Wonder how much old meany greenhouse gas was expelled in the publishing of that book. Also just think of the oil products that were used in transporting that book all over the planet. The pure friggen horror. I`ve figured it all out. It seems to me that the worst problems that exists in both non-essential usage of oil products and the expelling of greenhouse gases are being done trying to produce and transport books to those who wish to gain statistics for use in "Evil U.S. Empire" threads on the AH BBS. :)
« Last Edit: December 19, 2005, 04:48:57 PM by Jackal1 »
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline beet1e

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« Reply #62 on: December 19, 2005, 05:24:23 PM »
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Wonder how much old meany greenhouse gas was expelled in the publishing of that book. Also just think of the oil products that were used in transporting that book all over the planet.  
Good point, but the book was printed in Britain. St. Ives in fact, about 250 miles from here. I doubt that my copy was transported here by 4.6mpg Ford Excursion. :rofl

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #63 on: December 19, 2005, 07:08:04 PM »
Ford does not make a model called "Excursion"  

They haven't for a couple of years.

They have come out with "Escape" Hybrid SUV that gets about 30 mpg.

Does England still produce the Bentley Continental which is rated at 12 mpg? Or the Aston Martin DB9 manual coupe which gets only 11?

Think globally act locally.  How have you acted today?
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Offline beet1e

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« Reply #64 on: December 20, 2005, 03:55:19 AM »
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Ford does not make a model called "Excursion"  

They haven't for a couple of years.
http://www.fordvehicles.com/suvs/excursion/

HMcG - don't know about the Bentley or Aston, but in any case they are so expensive that only a relative handful are produced.

Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #65 on: December 20, 2005, 07:37:42 AM »
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Originally posted by beet1e
Good point, but the book was printed in Britain.  


Does not matter where it was printed. The frivolous use of oil products to produce and ship this thing around the planet is just a total horror. That`s not even taking into consideration the greenhouses gases that were expelled during production and shipping, etc.



Disclaimer: For the serious minded.......This ain`t. :)
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #66 on: December 20, 2005, 08:45:10 AM »
Because of my recent propensity for jumping from job to job, I have found it difficult to escape the confines of modern life and pursue the call of the wild.

Having accumulated enough personal leave days at my newest occupation of reconstructing the psychological foibles of some of Arkansas' finest young gangstas, I intended to satisfy my craving for a personal rapport with mother nature.

So...on a Friday night in November...the night prior to our efforts to assist the state government in taking a census of local odocoileus virginianus populations...my compatriots and I...that is, my Uncle Ken and his sons and assorted friends...sat around a campfire and retold the tales from times past.

The night was cool, but not too cool, the air crystal clear with stars blazing like diamonds.  Stories and lies seemed to be drawn forth by the fire and the congenial atmosphere.  Even politics became a topic of discussion, but wasn't delved in too deeply, for all felt that it might ruin the camaraderie.

Presently, one of the newer members of the camp, sipping on his coffee and gazing at the flames in rapture, opined that our campfire wasn't politically correct.  Quothe he, "The emissions might be in violation of the spirit of the Kyoto agreement."

This elicited a fair amount of discussion from those assembled worthies.  Some held that, since we only assembled a few times a year, and thus only built such a fire less than a dozen times in that period, the impact upon the environment was negligible.  Others felt that, given the impact of the world's population on our environment, even a little pollution on our part might not, in the long run, be acceptable.  Not that they actually advocated putting out the fire, mind, but mentioned it as an option that needed to be considered.

Finally, Uncle Ken proposed that we put it to a vote.  Should we or shouldn't we douse the fire.

This motion met with general approval, and the vote was held.

The outcome was that the proposal that the fire be put out was nixed.

As for it's impact on the environment, the consensus was that, "Frankly, we don't give a dam_!"

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #67 on: December 20, 2005, 08:48:08 AM »
It's only bad when other people are doing it... that is the "spirit" of the treaty and in fact....

government in general.

lazs

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #68 on: December 20, 2005, 08:51:24 AM »
case in point... when beet was over here... he flew here in a huge jet for no real purpose except his own entertainment... he rented a big oldsmobile and drove around sightseeing and when he came to my house we took a bunch of handguns out and shot em.

laws are for the peasants.

lazs

Offline Saintaw

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« Reply #69 on: December 20, 2005, 09:31:06 AM »
I'm confused... so after reading all them seven pages, I'll say I still blame it on culchies like Lazs. That's a safe bet... always has been.
Saw
Dirty, nasty furriner.

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #70 on: December 20, 2005, 12:28:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
http://www.fordvehicles.com/suvs/excursion/

HMcG - don't know about the Bentley or Aston, but in any case they are so expensive that only a relative handful are produced.


I followed the link, but it doesn't change the fact that the Excursion production has ceased.

Therefore there are more Bentley and Astons now made than Excursions.

But I guess it's okay for rich people to ruin the planet.

Any thoughts on how to change the warming trend on other objects in the solar system?
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Offline Rotax447

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« Reply #71 on: December 20, 2005, 01:40:03 PM »
Anyone ever try to make a profit by publishing a newspaper, book, or cable news network, that reports only good news?  Enough said about that.

Energy, energy, where for art thou?  The sun is producing 3.8*10^23 kilojoules per sec.  Each and every second, it produces enough energy to power the US for 9,000 years, at present consumption.  

Several terawatts of electricity are produced by earth bound power plants every year.  We need to increase this to the 20-30 terawatt range by 2050.

175 terawatts of energy are striking the earths upper atmosphere every day.  The physics of photovoltaic cells are well understood.  The physics of electromagnetic energy transmission are well understood.  The physics of space launch are well understood.  The physics of orbital mechanics are well understood.

All that is required to assemble the pieces, is simple addition.

Offline Tuomio

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« Reply #72 on: December 20, 2005, 04:11:54 PM »
Splitting H2O takes something like 5 times the energy you get out from the hydrogen, thus hydrogen is just a way to store energy, it is not energy source like oil for example. Its simply very inefficent battery.

Not to mention it has to be kept under -180C for it to be liquid, which is the only reasonable way for automobile consumption. Never going to happen thats for sure. Its more likely that processed biomasses will be used instead. But they will be super expensive, SUV:s will be just quirks in history books after that.

Offline Rotax447

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« Reply #73 on: December 20, 2005, 05:02:12 PM »
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Originally posted by Tuomio
Splitting H2O takes something like 5 times the energy you get out from the hydrogen, thus hydrogen is just a way to store energy, it is not energy source like oil for example. Its simply very inefficent battery.

Not to mention it has to be kept under -180C for it to be liquid, which is the only reasonable way for automobile consumption. Never going to happen thats for sure. Its more likely that processed biomasses will be used instead. But they will be super expensive, SUV:s will be just quirks in history books after that.


Good points, but there are solutions.  Let’s take biomass.  The Department of Agriculture claims that only 11% of the earths surface is suitable for growing crops.  With a world population of some 10 billion in 2050, we simply can’t afford to grow food to feed our cars.  

Hydrogen is inexhaustible.  The sun will burn for another 4 billion years, so FAPP solar radiation is inexhaustible.  If we use space based solar collectors to provide our energy, then use some of that energy to extract H from H2O, we have bought ourselves 4 billion years of civilization.  If we stay fossil fuel or biomass dependant, I doubt we will last another 200 years.

Right now, we can store H, as a gas, in 5,000 and 10,000 psi containers.  Ford is using the 5,000 psi tank in a twelve passenger shuttle bus.  The bus uses a hydrogen internal combustion engine, and gets about 7.5 MPG.  This is fine for city driving, and remember, the exhaust gas is H2O, not CO2.

We have all the technological pieces in place, to move from an earth based fossil fuel civilization, to a spaced based solar radiation civilization.  The only question is whether we have the wisdom, and the will, to do it.

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #74 on: December 21, 2005, 01:09:26 PM »
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Originally posted by lazs2
laws are for the peasants.
- and taxes are for little people! ;) I think it was Henry Ford II who said that

Rotax! My man! -very good post, and it just coincides with my having read chapter 3 in that book which discusses hydrogen fuel cells at considerable length. There's hope for it, but it seems that before development will go ahead in earnest, the world has to be brought to the brink of oil depletion before anyone will sit up and pay attention.