Confederate Flag STAYS

[MrBill]

 

Originally posted by ispar:
Er... not federally legal, it ain't. The state law is overridden by the federal law. Seems that no one particularly cares about that vote on the Texas ballots.

If I remember history 101 correctly (its been 40 years) Texas "joined" the union as an independent republic, (having won their independence from Mexico without formal help from the U S of A), and as such stipulated that they retained the right to become sovereign in the future.  The only other independent nation to "join" the "union" was Hawaii and they did not make this same stipulation.
This could have changed, but I do not remember hearing anything about such a change.
I do remember, back in the late 60s early 70s, there was a movement afoot to change the charter of the Texas Rangers.  I believe that they were originally a private army to the republic of Texas and some of the powers that be wanted that charter changed to a police charter.  Never did hear how that one came out.    



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OhNooo
smile awhile

[easymo]

  And you REALLY dont want to mess with the Rangers.  They are what the FBI should have been.

[AKSeaWulfe]

Insane... progression in racial equality does not mean you regress to fix history so that the past is clear of what you want removed completely in the future.

You know why Hitler never succeeded in invading Russia? He didn't analyze the mistakes of Napolean. If you can't use past history as a benchmark or a point of reference as to what you can do better in the future, then you are really working against yourself and the human race in trying to become unified so we can all kick down the walls of racial prejudice together.

Half my family is from North Dakota, the other half is from Geogia- I was born and raised in Wash, DC.

I dunno, it all seems just like a reason to get rid of history so we can go through it all again later on down the road.
-SW

[Creamo]

Wobble, stop flooding this whole BBS with sh*t, please.

yeah, post pictures of chickens or something really worthwhile like Saintard.

[Robert]

Yes Ammo i work in tunica.

RWY

[texace]

I have seen history books...brand new...that have no mention of black slaves, Hitler and the Jews, or anything else that has to do with historical racism. I e-mailed the company to ask why...and they said that they were doing it to protect the kids from the bad things of the past. Mind you, these are elementery and middle school history books. Well...if that's the case...then I can see that history books I'll be teaching to a class of my own won't mention the Civil War, because it had to do with slavery, it won't mention the Battle of the Alamo, because we killed Mexicans, it won't mention World War I, because it's war, we won't mention World War II, because not only was it war, it also involved Hitler and the Holocaust, and it might not even mention any war in the past 40 years.

How are we supposed to learn from history if all the pansy-assed, child-in-a-bubble parents try to protect their children from the "bad" things in America? Someone tell me..I want to know. What is past is past...and it is there to learn from. If they remove anything invloving racism and war, I see that my children's children will have slaves, segregated shops, and many more wars, because they won't know about the Civil Rights movements, the World Wars, and the Civil War.

We are supposed to learn from the past and make sure it doesn't happen again. I don't want to talk to my grandkids when they're 16 about World War II and them to say "What was that?"

As George Carlin says: "You want to know how to help your children? LEAVE THEM THE F**K ALONE!!!"

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semperfi
   
Everything dead in 30 minutes or less or the next one's free.
-Marines

[This message has been edited by texace (edited 04-22-2001).]

[This message has been edited by texace (edited 04-22-2001).]

[Thud]

 

Originally posted by MrBill:
If I remember history 101 correctly (its been 40 years)   Texas "joined" the union as an independent republic, (having won their independence from Mexico without formal help from the U S of A), and as such stipulated that they retained the right to become sovereign in the future.  The only other independent nation to "join" the "union" was Hawaii and they did not make this same stipulation.
This could have changed, but I do not remember hearing anything about such a change.
I do remember, back in the late 60s early 70s, there was a movement afoot to change the charter of the Texas Rangers.  I believe that they were originally a private army to the republic of Texas and some of the powers that be wanted that charter changed to a police charter.  Never did hear how that one came out.    

Well, it seems I have spoken before my turn although I doubt this was what easymo was referring to when I look at his first post in this thread.........

[Udie]

 

Originally posted by ispar:
Er... not federally legal, it ain't. The state law is overridden by the federal law. Seems that no one particularly cares about that vote on the Texas ballots.

Wrong, state law is overridden by the constitution.  Texas was/is the only state to retain the right to secede after recontruction. Which I sometimes think we should exercise.

 Texas is the best place on Earth!  

Udie

[Glasses]

        Regarding what they put above about children living in a bottle I think it's not due to protecting the children from the 'bad' things of the world but from protecting their innocence for the most time possible.

          It is very Important IMO for a child to be happy and not get troubled or disillusioned by the world which surrounds them which most often is a harsh one until that child grows to have the necessary maturity to actually understand what goes around them.

Again this is just my opinion.
 
 

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Glasses---I may have 4 eyes ,but you only have one wing.
Besser tot als rot

[easymo]

  Based on other posts, it should be clear that Texans are very familiar with there legal rights.  I am not advocating secession.  But it is nice to know we have the right in our back pocket.

[Eagler]

 

Originally posted by Glasses:
       Regarding what they put above about children living in a bottle I think it's not due to protecting the children from the 'bad' things of the world but from protecting their innocence for the most time possible.

          It is very Important IMO for a child to be happy and not get troubled or disillusioned by the world which surrounds them which most often is a harsh one until that child grows to have the necessary maturity to actually understand what goes around them.

Again this is just my opinion.
 
 

When's that, when they are 21?
BS, children are old enough in 5th and 6th grade to learn about the "bad" things in history.
I was.
Glasses, you are of the mindset which is the problem.

Eagler

[Twist]

One kid in 6th one in 4th, I've held nothing back since either was 10. They hate when I make them 'look it up' or when I say "go see what you can find and we'll talk later", of course the rewards are that I get to talk to my kids, they learn and not just from school textbooks, then we go out and grab a bite at Cracker Barrel  
  All this knowledge they have and still they cannot figure out why people they don't know want to blame them and anything associated with them and their past for something over which they had no control or say. And on top of that, the same folks want to 'change' the parts they don't like.
  The south is still at war but with itself now, anything that can be abused is, programs that were intended to provide temporary relief are used as life time grants, others are used to get a promotion over someone else who is clearly the better choice. And I've only been here 10 short years...but I've never seen this much hate in one place before.
  I quit trying to understand it long ago, too many headaches. 2 years til retirement and hello Colorado, maybe there I can have grand-dads pic on the wall without ruffling feathers. We shall see....

[Yoj]

I haven't seen anything in this discussion from the black community - so I thought I'd throw in my two cents, since I am, for want of a better term, black (BTW, I agree the currently PC term of "African-American" is both awkward and misleading), and I know exactly why there is opposition to the old flag.

The flag itself is tied to history and to heritage, and was never intended represent racist ideologies.  As the Confederate Battle Flag, it flew over people who were acting as patriots in the best American tradition, and who fought and died for what they felt was their country, as honorably as any Americans have ever fought for anything.  The problem lies elsewhere.

The problem comes from the fact that the Confederate flag was adopted by a minority faction (long after the War Between The States was over) to symbolize their opposition to any attempts at addressing the civil rights of Black people (and I think we can all agree that those issues HAD to be addressed).  This group added an overlay of meaning to the flag that was never there historically, and its that added association that people object to.  

In my personal experience, the South has done more to outgrow racist attitudes than the North has - but visual symbols are very powerful, and the Confederate flag is a particularly powerful symbol.  Regardless of its origin and of what it SHOULD represent, there will always be discomforting overtones associated with it to Black Americans - not because of its legitimate history, but because its symbolism was usurped by a small group of people with particularly ugly attitudes.

- Yoj

[Ripsnort]

Yoj, most extremist groups have two flags flying, one is the US flag we have today, the other is the Union Jack...so should we take both down since a minority faction has abused(IMO) both flags?

That's where the political question lies.

[Sturm]

Beat me to it Rip, the flag issue means alot to me.  My heritage and what my relatives fought for.  That is what everyone wants right?  Their heritage remembered.  Shall we hate the british?  Should the Indians hate us for what happened when we came to this country?  I think they have more of a right to hate the US flag then anyone else.  

Just think about that, the american indians were here first we came and took their land, massacred their families and do we hear them squeaking and complaining about a flag?  One last thing it happened along time ago we weren't there, that is where it should stay.    

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Sturm6 StaffelKapitän
JV44 Platzschutzstaffel
Airfield Defense Squadron
"Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl harbor?"  Famous quote from Animal House, John Belushi.