Author Topic: Confederate Flag STAYS  (Read 3019 times)

Offline Yoj

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Confederate Flag STAYS
« Reply #45 on: April 24, 2001, 03:58:00 PM »
Guys, I'm not arguing the flag issue - I'm telling you why black America has a problem with it.  Taking the flag down is not a solution - the only solution is removing racism from the hearts of everyone in this country, because it it were gone, nobody would be concerned about the flag.

At best the issue is a focal point for debate.  Unfortunately, this one has so much emotional charge that, as far as I can see, neither side is listening to the other, so its no longer a meaningful debate - if it ever was.  

As far as your points about the British, the Native Americans and other flags - those are moot.  Those people are not upset, whether you think they have more reason to be or not. Logically analyzing one side of the issue and saying it makes no sense is not fair.  NEITHER side has a logical reason for strong feelings - but BOTH have understandable strong emotional reasons for their reactions. More would be concluded if they didn't dismiss each other's points of view so easily.  

Offline Yoj

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« Reply #46 on: April 24, 2001, 04:05:00 PM »
Oh and STURM - I don't think you've talked much to Native American's about this issue.  You might be surprised what many of them think about Old Glory.  Its not a dusty old issue long forgotten. There is a movement afoot to have Columbus Day removed as a holiday, not to mention all the movements for land reparations, and on and on.  YOU might think its all in the past, but the losers have long memories.

- Yoj

Offline sling322

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« Reply #47 on: April 24, 2001, 04:06:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by easymo:
 And you REALLY dont want to mess with the Rangers.

Yeah...but they got no pitching at all.  

And a side-note to Ispar...if Texas decided to secede, would those Federal laws really matter anymore?  I mean, if you decided to leave a union then why would you care what their laws said anyways?  

Offline Rebel

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« Reply #48 on: April 24, 2001, 04:39:00 PM »
Hey folks  

I just wanted to pop in and comment-

The synosism of Racism and the Confederate flag isn't due to the fact that they were slaves in the south.  The North had just as many slave owners (The southern owners just had more) even the friggin' White House had slaves. (yep, even good ol' Abe)

The main reason it becomes such a big issue is because of the KKK.  People saw them marching with that flag, and the reaction was heated, instantaneous, and ignorant.

What people fail to see was the honor and glory of the men who fell fighting a war who just wanted to be left alone.  It was the war of Northern Aggression.

Another thing people turn a blind eye to was that during the biggest growth of the KKK, it wasn't the Confederate flag at the head of the parade.

It was the same flag that still waves over the White House.

The KKK has been deformed from a private social club hell bent on making lives of the occupying Northern forces "intresting" (They weren't burning crosses or anything back then- they were "haunting" them with the ghosts of the Confederate dead) to an institution hell bent on destroying the honor and sacrifice that legions of men who fell for what they believed in.  

It's a total crime, a shame, and outright embarrasing to give such an institution this kind of power.  These objections shouldn't be worth the paper they're written on simply because of a (relatively small) group of guys and gals just looking for attention.

The KKK is the king of Trolls.

Think before you flame.  

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Sturm

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« Reply #49 on: April 24, 2001, 05:24:00 PM »
Funny I am married to a native amercican, guess your right I haven't talked to them about it.  

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Offline Montezuma

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« Reply #50 on: April 24, 2001, 10:46:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by TheWobble:
Well the vote came in today, the Confederate flag WILL NOT be ordered removed from the mississippi capital building.

The citizens of Mississippi are the poorest, most diseased, and least educated of any US state.

Sturm

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« Reply #51 on: April 25, 2001, 06:53:00 AM »
Yoj still waiting for a response.

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Offline Yoj

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« Reply #52 on: April 25, 2001, 09:20:00 AM »
Can't respond until I read it  

Obviously I didn't know about your marriage, or, for that matter, who you've talked to or what about.  I still maintain that suggesting that native Americans AS A GROUP have forgotten the past and hold no resentment about having been conquered and kicked off their land is simply wrong.  There are a lot who do, and pretty regularly that resentment flares up.

There is no conflict between this and the often intense patriotism they show.  WW2 is a great example - native Americans, Nisei and black Americans in particular distinguished themselved fighting for the country that oppressed them both before and after the war. That did not stop them from resenting that oppression and fighting against it.

Its easy to say the past is gone, and logically its true.  People are not always logical.

- Yoj

Offline fd ski

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« Reply #53 on: April 25, 2001, 10:55:00 AM »
I have a question to all you folks outthere... yeah i know...everyone's best friend is black...

So when did the rasizm and prosecusion for the color of skin ENDED in america ? Date please.



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Offline Robert

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« Reply #54 on: April 25, 2001, 12:06:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Montezuma:
The citizens of Mississippi are the poorest, most diseased, and least educated of any US state.


Where the @#$% did that come from ?

RWY

Offline Yoj

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« Reply #55 on: April 25, 2001, 12:31:00 PM »
"So when did the rasizm and prosecusion for the color of skin ENDED in america ? Date please."

Three possibilities:  (1) There never was any, (2) June 17th, 1982, (3) its still here. (My vote is for #3).

- Yoj

Sturm

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« Reply #56 on: April 25, 2001, 05:06:00 PM »
Topic change what about other countries?  Ok funny thing is I am a minority on the base where I work, or I should say the squadron.  Do i recieve special treatment, or even special recommendations?  There is so much squeaking from minorities and to be honest I don't think they realize how good they have it.  Education, grants, small business, you name it.

I do not feel sorry for anyone that does not take advantage of free education.  I wish I had it, I lost out and you want to know why?  Even though i had higher SAT's and a higher GPA I was not awarded a scholarship, see in MI "UofM" they had to give scholarships to minorities even if they scored lower.  Don't believe me?  Was in the news and made headlines.  

Am I angry about it, at the time I was am I now?  No I hope those that made it made something of their lives.  Sit back and think how you would feel if you were in my situation.   And BTW UofM is not a cheap university to go to.      

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Offline Montezuma

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« Reply #57 on: April 26, 2001, 02:41:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Robert:

Where the @#$% did that come from ?
RWY

You must be aware that by just about every measure of social progress Mississippi is dead last of the 50 states.  

Mississippi has the lowest rates of college graduation and literacy.  The shortest life expectancy, highest infant mortality rate, and highest incidence of sexually transmitted diseases are in Mississippi.    Guess which state has the highest poverty rate and the lowest average income?  

Despite this, Mississippi voters seem to think that the flying banner of an old misguided venture is more important than desperately needed investment and economic development.  Admirable or pitiful?

Grozny

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« Reply #58 on: April 26, 2001, 01:29:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Montezuma:
You must be aware that by just about every measure of social progress Mississippi is dead last of the 50 states.  

Mississippi has the lowest rates of college graduation and literacy.  The shortest life expectancy, highest infant mortality rate, and highest incidence of sexually transmitted diseases are in Mississippi.    Guess which state has the highest poverty rate and the lowest average income?  

Despite this, Mississippi voters seem to think that the flying banner of an old misguided venture is more important than desperately needed investment and economic development.  Admirable or pitiful?

And changing the flag would improve those statistics in what possible way?  

The flag issue was brought up by the the Governor of MS who supported the new flag. The vote cost roughly $3million dollars at a time when the Dept of Human Services, Dept of Health, Dept of Rehab Services, and other agencies of MS are having to cut their budgets.  And that is pitiful.