Author Topic: Jailed for Expressing an Opinion? (Read 1404 times)

Curval · « **Reply #15 on:** February 20, 2006, 05:23:33 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tarmac
Who decides what a lie is? The government?

In this particular case the guy himself admitted to "making a mistake":

"I made a mistake when I said there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz,"

Well then you should have stfu. Especially when the country you live in made making such assertions illegal.

Tarmac · « **Reply #16 on:** February 20, 2006, 05:27:19 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Curval
In this particular case the guy himself admitted to "making a mistake":

"I made a mistake when I said there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz,"

Well then you should have stfu. Especially when the country you live in made making such assertions illegal.

CONFESS OR VE VILL THROW YOU IN ZE JAIL!

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 20, 2006, 05:27:27 PM »

I believe the muslim who murdered the Right Wing dutch activist was sentenced to less time.

eskimo2 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 20, 2006, 05:31:19 PM »

At least he didn’t build a plastic model ME 109 with a swastika on its tail; then he’d really be in trouble!

ChickenHawk · « **Reply #19 on:** February 20, 2006, 05:47:11 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tarmac
So the Austrian government still hasn't gotten that goose-stepping thing out of its system.

In an art museum not long ago I saw a 17th century Chinese couch with a back rest that had wood lattice work carved into many swastikas.

I wonder how many generations it will take before that particular design looses it's infamy.

Ping · « **Reply #20 on:** February 20, 2006, 05:57:13 PM »

Eagl is absolutely correct. That guy knowingly broke the law, guilty of a hate or racism crime.
The warrant was from 1989, seems to have taken him a long time to say he was sorry and he was mistaken in what he said, while still saying it elsewhere.

Thrawn, this isn't about freedom of speech, its about perpetuating a view or belief that is used to incite racism and hatred. And that quite often results in death.

Angus · « **Reply #21 on:** February 20, 2006, 06:13:10 PM »

WARNING, GROSS STUFF

Get this.
Irving has been nicely in the club of Holocaust denialists, - or rather in the club of those who wanted to haggle it down in numbers.
He has been hated a lot for the publication of Allied attrocities. Dresden, PQ-17 and such have been held high by him.
Thereby he has FUELLED the Neo-Nazis (them usually being thick-as-a-brick anyway) with his "history" work.
He has however brought up questions and such, - more or less to be proved wrong.
Now, if you go on to Zundel, you will find a real denialist.
I studied that story quite a bit - and oh dear, that guy is nuts.
To work on his case, he even sent a "Specialist of execution chambers" to analyze the ruins of Auscwitz/Birkeau etc...and the results....

Some of the Basic claims:

1. Jews didn't get killed by those numbers.
2. There was no way to burn the bodies that fast.
3. Zyklon was not effective enough to choke them
4. The chambers weren't tight enough to kill a human.
5. The chambers were for delousing the Jew's clothes, not killing them.
6. No proof of advanced chambers, for exclusively people.
7. Ignition problems...you couldn't have put up enough ppm of gas (be it cyanide or CO) without explosions
8 Not enough records of transported Zyclon as well as fuel to kill and burn the bodies.

These 8 items make me sick. I actually spent some 2 days last year to go through this dung, and it made me really sick. Ok, some findings, whick I'd like to print on big thick paper and stuff it into those gentleman's exhaust pipes:
1. Jews are still missing by those numbers. Actually more. Jews missing from WW2 equal roughly the population of Israel today.
2. 30-40 kg body, naked is no equilevent of a 90 kg body in coffin and all. That was the comparison. The remains do not have to fit in a jar anyway.
3. Zyklon needs only 0.7% of the strenght used in those US execution facilities that still use it (if they do) to kill a person, - even without inhaling.
Numbers being 300 ppm vs 50.000 ppm
4. The chambers "not sufficient enough" were for delousing, which needs a lot more density than humans. Anyway if you look at this openly , this means you couldn't commit suicide by letting your car run inside the garage. Belive that? Zyklon B is a lot more leathal ....
5. Yeahhh...sure. All for welfare eh?
6. Why did they get demolished as a priority just before enemy capture?
7. How did you delouse then? Anyway, the necessary amount of Zyklon to kill a human in less than a minute or so, is well beneath ignititing values.
8. Not enough selling notes from the Reich. Bear in mind that this was not to be supposed to be discovered at all. There are however extensive records AND findings of hair, clothes (railwagons of babyclothes make me sick)glasses, teeth, shoes, etc, - enough with the records of transfer, - to establish a horrible database of how much the actual matter actually was.

I may have lost myself a tad there. After being in Auscwitz, and Birkenau (to top it I went by train) as well as Dachau, I get a stomach pain from reading stuff like Irving, and especially Zunder. I hope they share a cell

Harry · « **Reply #22 on:** February 20, 2006, 06:26:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lasersailor184
In another thread I claimed that Western Europeans would let anyone get away with anything, except denying the holocaust.

I've been proved.

Yes, if "Western Europeans" were one people living in one country under one set of laws ...

You have been proven a fool.

Ping · « **Reply #23 on:** February 20, 2006, 06:29:57 PM »

Cmon Harry, don't kick a man when hes down.

Thrawn · « **Reply #24 on:** February 20, 2006, 09:22:41 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ping
Thrawn, this isn't about freedom of speech, its about perpetuating a view or belief that is used to incite racism and hatred. And that quite often results in death.

So, the people that get incited aren't robots. They make the choice to act on the words said by whatever retard is saying them. To say that someone is going to incite a riot by spewing stupid crap is to charge them with like...future-crime.

eagl · « **Reply #25 on:** February 20, 2006, 09:26:45 PM »

So.... printing and distributing counterfeit money should be OK because it's only theft after it's used to buy something?

Selling explosives to kids should be ok because there's no harm done until the kid blows their hands off? Like the explosive seller should be punished for the bad judgement of the kids and the parents who didn't monitor their kids?

Really Thrawn, you can do better

Rolex · « **Reply #26 on:** February 20, 2006, 09:36:00 PM »

He was convicted and sentenced in an Austrian court for violating Austrian law in Austria. I feel neither sorry for him, nor feel he was unjustly persecuted.

Hangtime · « **Reply #27 on:** February 20, 2006, 10:09:10 PM »

Yup.

A little side note: When Eisenhower toured the death camps he insisted that everything be photographicly documented. Then he brought the people from the local towns in, had them bury the dead. Had that documented too. He was insistent about the evidence being shown to the world.

"The same day [April 12, 1945] I saw my first horror camp. It was near the town of Gotha. I have never felt able to describe my emotional reactions when I first came face to face with indisputable evidence of Nazi brutality and ruthless disregard of every shred of decency. Up to that time I had known about it only generally or through secondary sources. I am certain, however that I have never at any other time experienced an equal sense of shock.

I visited every nook and cranny of the camp because I felt it my duty to be in a position from then on to testify at first hand about these things in case there ever grew up at home the belief or assumption that `the stories of Nazi brutality were just propaganda.' Some members of the visiting party were unable to continue through the ordeal. I not only did so but as soon as I returned to Patton's headquarters that evening I sent communications to both Washington and London, urging the two governments to send instantly to Germany a random group of newspaper editors and representative groups from the national legislatures. I felt that the evidence should be immediately placed before the American and British publics in a fashion that would leave no room for cynical doubt."

Eisenhower was prescient on this one, enh?

Yeager · « **Reply #28 on:** February 20, 2006, 10:34:26 PM »

lot of good it did eh Hangtime.

Most Arab people dont believe the holocaust even happened. Arab people want to finsh what Hitler started. Arab people, with their peaceful and all loving Islam, want to destroy the people of the old testament.

Is it even a fight worth getting involved in? If we fight this with the jews we would end up killing about half the planet. What are we to do?

Yeager seeks the thoughts and wisdom of the old men.
Hangtime! help me out here bro. Toad, show me the way!

Also, Eagl can chime in here....he aint as old as those other two buggers but man, is he is a smart fella.

I would ask sandman and MT for their advice, but they are neither old nor wise, so its all up to HANGTIME, TOAD and EAGL!!!!!!!

Wheres Drex anyway?

StSanta · « **Reply #29 on:** February 20, 2006, 11:41:58 PM »

Those support laws against holocaust denails are in the same camp as those who want to ban religious caricatures.

"The laws are in place to stop moral decay"
"They're lies "
"Extremely sensitive area"

All of the three above can be said about the Mohammed caricatures.

The Jyllands-Posten culture publisher dude is on leave, for saying he would publish holocaust-caricatures.

So, they may be right. We may have double standards here.

Question is: do we fix this or not? And do we fix it by broadening our freedoms or by restricting them?

Let the nutters rant, I say