Author Topic: Choice of Ammo load in F4U/F6F (Read 1996 times)

F4UDOA · « **on:** March 07, 2006, 08:56:47 AM »

In almost every aircraft in AH there is a choice of ammo load at takeoff. Even in smaller A/C that didn't carry much in the first place.

However in the F4U and F6F where there is clear historic evidence that an "interceptor" loadout was used there is no ability to carry less than 750lbs of 50 cal ammo no matter what the purpose.

Please give the F4U/F6F a 1/2 ammunition option of 1200 rounds of .50 cal. This is not a major adjustment and would allow these A/C to be scrabled when a carrier is under attack and additonal climb rate is required.

I can provide documention as to this loadout if needed.

F4UDOA · « **Reply #1 on:** March 09, 2006, 08:48:42 AM »

I guess I am the only one flying Navy planes in AH.

meddog · « **Reply #2 on:** March 09, 2006, 08:54:37 AM »

I would fly them more if some one would teach me how with better than average odds of surviving.

Mister ED · « **Reply #3 on:** March 09, 2006, 09:28:19 AM »

Most of the times I get snipped in by an F6fs. Seems the only way they can get kills, espeically on us Pony Pilots.

Now back to your subject:

The term "The whole nine yards" came from having to choose fuel VS ammo due to wieght restrictions.

Those whom flew close in carrier support got to carry all 27 feet of 50 cal belts that fit in the ammo boxes. (27ft = 9 yards) they would limit the fuel they carried, they could fly in, fuel, relaunch quickly.

Saxman · « **Reply #4 on:** March 09, 2006, 11:30:31 AM »

Well, it's pretty easy not to get killed in a Pony when all y'all do is run.

I'm always seeing P-51s skedaddle from my solo F4U when there hasn't been any other cons around if they couldn't force a HO.

Krusty · « **Reply #5 on:** March 09, 2006, 11:42:21 AM »

Considering the term "whole 9 yards" didn't show up til the 70s, I doubt very much it is war related. Too many urban myths surround that phrase. It's relatively modern, NOT WW2 related, NOT sail-ship related.

Just as an aside.

EDIT: Well the problem with light ammo loads is this:

These planes (f6f and f4u) have relatively medium ammo loads, as-is. I often need all of the ammo just to get a few kills, and that's WITH firing conservatively, and WITH picking my shots well.

I have (many a time) unloaded every last shot into a bomber (or formation) and not gotten a single kill. In an f4u I unloaded every shot into 3 lancs, making 7 passes or more, and ended up getting only 3 assists, with millions of hit sprites.

So *IF* you have to get up there in a hurry, the lesser ammo load (I'm thinking about equivelant to P40E, right?) you'd not get any kills.

Having considered that, I'm all for it, if you can prove it was very common. You have to prove what time frame it was used in (and if the aircraft we have match that time frame), what groups used it, how many used it, how often they used it, and how widespread that use was across the entire fleet. Hell, 1/3 the total 109G-6s had 30mm, but our model doesn't have it anymore, because it's a mid-era G-6. Under the same logic, we have to make sure things like this reduced ammo fit the time frame for the f4us and f6fs, and other things.

If you have all that info and it all "gels" with the models we have, then I'm all for it!

Mister ED · « **Reply #6 on:** March 09, 2006, 01:21:23 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Saxman
Well, it's pretty easy not to get killed in a Pony when all y'all do is run. I'm always seeing P-51s skedaddle from my solo F4U when there hasn't been any other cons around if they couldn't force a HO.

The number One vulcher of Ponys in the 10k and below alt range are F6Fs.

We are in a 2.5 ROC at 150 and sitting ducks until we get speed up.

When we get to 10k or higher, we rule the skies :-)

Mister ED · « **Reply #7 on:** March 09, 2006, 01:24:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
Considering the term "whole 9 yards" didn't show up til the 70s, I doubt very much it is war related. Too many urban myths surround that phrase. It's relatively modern, NOT WW2 related, NOT sail-ship related.

Not only did I here this from a WWII pilot, and my father. It was on the History channel a few years ago.

Id ask a WWII air vet if you can find one. My 86 year old unicle is here for my mothers funeral. Ill make sure to ask him. He was a B-17 pilot in WWII.

F4UDOA · « **Reply #8 on:** March 09, 2006, 01:44:26 PM »

I have no idea where the whole 9 yards came from. But I can show Grumman and Vought docs showing "Interceptor" Loadouts with 50% fuel and ammo.

That being said the F4U and F6F carry 750lbs of ammo. Much more than the pony and way more thay any euro or Japanese fighter I am aware of. The P-47 carried more total rounds and weight and the P-38 carried less rounds but around the same weight.

In any case the P-47, P-51, P-38, FW190, 109 all have variable ammo loads.

All I am asking for is 1 additional ammo option.

Then we can talk about getting some Tiny Tim 11.75 inch rockets.

Reschke · « **Reply #9 on:** March 09, 2006, 02:43:26 PM »

AMEN F4UDOA!

Lets get some other ordinance load out options for those beautiful blue birds!!!!

straffo · « **Reply #10 on:** March 09, 2006, 03:01:24 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by F4UDOA
That being said the F4U and F6F carry 750lbs of ammo. Much more than the pony and way more thay any euro or Japanese fighter I am aware of.

Typhoon ? 190A8 ?

F4UDOA · « **Reply #11 on:** March 09, 2006, 04:11:59 PM »

Straffo,

The Tiffy has 140 rounds per gun * 4 = 560 rounds.

The C-Hog carries 924 rounds of the same ammo which weights about as much as the 2400 rounds of 50 cal in the D-Hog.

The A-8 really is a gunship. It carries a load of 780 rounds of 20 mil and 950 rounds of 13 mil. Not as many total rounds but I am sure the weight is way up there.

However the A-8 has an infinite number of ammo load and gun options. The F4U and F6F you are 100% everytime unless you want to shoot off all your ammo on the way out.

Saxman · « **Reply #12 on:** March 09, 2006, 10:57:26 PM »

Hey Krusty, what convergence settings do you use? And are you just talking about hitting Buffs or fighters, as well?

Given that I rarely survive long enough to burn my full loadout as it is and still manage multiple kills I wouldn't have much trouble with the lightened load.

Krusty · « **Reply #13 on:** March 10, 2006, 12:50:22 AM »

Saxman, bombers mostly, but also vs fighters. I'm trying FS Auto start to see if that helps any.

Just checked numbers offline:

Hog1: 2350 total 50cal rounds (6 guns)
DHog: 2400 total 50cal rounds (6 guns)
F6F: 2400 total 50cal rounds (6 guns)
FM2: 1720 total 50cal rounds (6 guns)
P47 light/heavy: 1602/2550 total 50cal rounds (6 guns)
P47 light/heavy: 2136/3400 total 50cal rounds (8 guns)
P51B: 1860 total 50cal rounds (4 guns)
P51D: 1880 total 50cal rounds (6 guns)

So, while the DHog does have more ammo, it's not that much more than some. It is only 27% more than a P51D, it is the same as the F6F, and it is less than a light P47.

I think it might be interesting to see a second ammo load out. I don't think I'd ever use it, but it would be nice. Thougth I'd just check what AH US planes had, 50cal wise. Oh, and the P30 has 2000 rounds of 50cal, and that's with only 5 guns! As you can see, the heavy ammo load was common and probably necessary, based on stories I've heard where pilots say they just press the trigger and keep pressing it while in turns and so forth.

straffo · « **Reply #14 on:** March 10, 2006, 02:47:08 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by F4UDOA
Straffo,

The Tiffy has 140 rounds per gun * 4 = 560 rounds.

The C-Hog carries 924 rounds of the same ammo which weights about as much as the 2400 rounds of 50 cal in the D-Hog.

I forgot the C-Hog as there are now pretty rare in the MA ...