Author Topic: Why unions still suck (Read 3202 times)

Ripsnort · « **Reply #30 on:** March 31, 2006, 09:19:06 AM »

My biggest problem with the unions when I was union was their politics and greed.

They would pummel you constantly (like a Born Again Christian trying to convert) with literature of who you should vote for in any upcoming elections at every level of Government.

Starting salary for a new hire secretary with no experience (in todays PC world called "OA" for Office Assistant") was what a MAXED OUT GRADE LEVEL MACHINIST MADE! In 1996, this was something like $70,000.00....for a damn secretary!

The highest paid Journeyman machinist with 30 years senority made $68k at that time!~

Of course, the union was good for people who worked the system, upped until our company allowed the union to go to a closed shop. Then the union stopped working for the common man when a grievance was filed...saw it happen over and over and over again with co-workers. It was sort of good in the way that the folks who "worked the system" no long could, but at the same time, when a valid grievance was filed, the union didn't give a crap...they got your money no matter how hard they worked for you.

Sure, they negotiated some really LOUSY contracts, like in 1989 when we went out on strike for 69 days, and settled for the same contract that the Company offered us on day 1.

In 1995 we struck for 45 days, and I think we got our medical co-pay for office visits down from $12/a visit to $10/ a visit.

Unions are like corporations, they're in it for themselves. If you think they represent you, then you're addicted to the Kool Aid.

P.S. THe union negotiated really high wages, like 25% more than our peers made outside of our company, eventually costing the union 25,000 members due to being overpriced. The company took the work elsewhere. Typical union greed. You see, when you make more, they get more $$ in union dues. I ALWAYS felt I was overpaid for the jobs I did as a union worker (and I knew I was overpaid by speaking to peers in the same business)

Choocha · « **Reply #31 on:** March 31, 2006, 09:52:57 AM »

There was a strike at a GM facility -Pontiac East. The UAW sheep walked out suddenly. Most of them had no idea why they were walking out but they acted like 3rd graders sent home from school...yelling and wuping it up. They struck for a few weeks and it was over. After returning, most still didn't know what the whole thing was about. Some time later the Detroit Free Press uncovered that the Head of the Union Local had a brother that was hired by GM as an executive (very high pay) around the time the strike ended.

classic

WhiteHawk · « **Reply #32 on:** March 31, 2006, 09:53:33 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Choocha
When I was in Detroit I went outa my why to make sure that anybody working on my house was not affil. with any Union. I hired a truckload of Mexican illegals to roof my house once. They worked hard, didn't complain and finished the job for 1/2 price.

WTG!! Lowereing the standards of all working families a bit more.

Donzo · « **Reply #33 on:** March 31, 2006, 10:38:34 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by cpxxx
Ok, without going into details simply put: I accidently marked the first part from a lot with the coding for the previous lot. It was discovered at the inspection end of the line quite properly as that is their job. But in fact I would have realised it had happened once I reached the end of the current lot anyway once the figures didn't add up. But it was found and pointed out to me before I finished. I held my hands up, made no excuses and tried to figure out how it happened. This is medical equipment related so errors are taken seriously particularly when the FDA are on the prowl. However similar or more serious errors have happened before (not to me) without anyone being disciplined or suspended.

I believe a certain individual who has a quality function told my supervisor they wanted me pulled off the line or else! Leaving him no choice. Quality in there act more like fascist police than in any place I worked before. You actually have to be careful what you say around them. Even the supervisor is scared of them. Little people with power. It's always the same. I never clashed with any of them but I was singled out in a most subtle manner. Initially I thought they treated everyone like that until colleagues pointed out that they seemed to have it in for me and to watch my back. Well now they got their chance.

Why? I don't know.

Does the company you work for start with a "G" by chance?

LePaul · « **Reply #34 on:** March 31, 2006, 10:47:19 AM »

Hang, for every "good union"...and there are some out there...I can point out zillions of examples where they are simply greedy. I also dont agree with them spending union members money endorsing a political candidate and pressuring their membership to vote that way. The people they represent are varied, so to claim to know each and every members political outlook is stupid and narrow minded. Any shop that *requires union membership* indicates to me they are bent on anyone having a conflicting opinion.

While at UPS, I got tired of the Teamster clones who knew only what the union boys insisted they know. Like herded sheep. If you tried to talk to these pro-union folks, all they could do was spout off the predictable pro-union mantra over and over.

I got injured on the job and my loving Teamsters dropped the ball. I was out of work for a month and they did nothing. But rest assured, the dues were deducted. So call me biased or what have you....but the notion that unions are all about the members is hogwash. Unions are about the union leaders and their political ambitions.

I think the bad unions, like the UAW and others we see that gasp at paying a $9 a month medical co-pay are the ones making whatever good ones look bad. To me, it looks like protectionism for overpaid and over-benefitted positions. Refusing to install toliets that save water? C'mon, if this doesnt make one go "ya know, we've got a problem", then perhaps the close to$3000 extra a GM car costs due to Union member benefits will.

Skuzzy · « **Reply #35 on:** March 31, 2006, 11:07:01 AM »

Oh yeah, unions are a good thing,..sure. Tell my Father that after the unions burned his business to the ground after the reps were run out of the store by the employees.
Tell my Grandfather that after his home was burned down to the ground (lost my Grandma in that one) after unions reps were run out of his place of business by the employees.

Whenever I have any work done, which is coming out of my pocket, I ask if they are union and keep asking until I find someone who isn't. Unions can stuff it.

Now you know why I detest them. There is not a bloody thing anyone can say which will make unions appropriate from where I sit.

Nilsen · « **Reply #36 on:** March 31, 2006, 11:12:07 AM »

What kind of union burns down businesses skuzz?
I've never heard of any. Sounds more like mafia than any union I ever seen

Skuzzy · « **Reply #37 on:** March 31, 2006, 11:18:05 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nilsen
What kind of union burns down businesses skuzz?
I've never heard of any. Sounds more like mafia than any union I ever seen

Corrupt, arrogant ones (most of them from what I can tell). I really do not give a rats poop about the unions, nor anyone else's opinion about them. They can all drop off a cliff and I will not blink an eye over it.
They are a plague on humanity and only there out of greed and some cheesy notion of power. Not any better than the terrorists who took out the towers.

MiloMorai · « **Reply #38 on:** March 31, 2006, 11:22:35 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nilsen
What kind of union burns down businesses skuzz?
I've never heard of any. Sounds more like mafia than any union I ever seen

Don't know about today but the mafia ran the longshoreman and teamsters ubions.

Hangtime · « **Reply #39 on:** March 31, 2006, 11:23:44 AM »

I'm not a member.. never have been. As managment, they sat squarely in my way when I had a problem that needed solving. Yup, I'd have to agree that for the most part a modern unions protections are far outweighed by the millstone they affix to any progress by small to medium businesses, and the actual transitory protection they may provide to a modern worker.

In a cost-benefit analisis in a modern workplace, most workers can do better with private insurance and supplentals like aflac.

But, sometimes they work. The best and still farthest-reaching effect they have is that they etablish a wage and benifit 'standard' that non-union shops generally stay with to keep union organizers out.

Now, with corporate america on a head-hunt for cheap labor and the AFL/CIO rubber stamping the guest worker program... man if that ain't a scary indictment of corrupt unions, corrupt corporations and corrupt politicians all rump humping the american middle class outta jobs, then I don't know WHAT is.

Bottom lines.. I don't wanna see the American Working Class.. the guys that actually BUILD stuff, manufacturing; in what little is left of real American Job Sector sold out to big business intrests.

So, no.. I ain't ready to toss unions aside and let corporate america create slum cities around their crummy job handouts. Are you?

Nilsen · « **Reply #40 on:** March 31, 2006, 11:26:24 AM »

I am a member of NHO.. The english name for it is "Confederation of Norwegian Enterprise"

Perhaps more the oposite of a union, but still a union..kinda. Make sense of it if you can

Gunslinger · « **Reply #41 on:** March 31, 2006, 11:29:56 AM »

I can't remember where I read this but Major unions spent 70% of their earnings (the dollar figure as up there in the hundreds of millions) on, care to guess:

A. Salleries
B. Workers Pensions
C. None of the above

If you chose C you where correct.

They spent hundreds of millions of dollars on POLITICAL CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS

In my minds eye the unions are using hard earned dollars of the working man to help elect political leaders that suposedly help out the unions even when said members don't support said political leader.

It's all about power base.

Skuzzy · « **Reply #42 on:** March 31, 2006, 11:45:52 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hangtime
So, no.. I ain't ready to toss unions aside and let corporate america create slum cities around their crummy job handouts. Are you?

I, for one, have never been out of work, have always had decent benefits and have been quite happy with my work over the last 35+ years. I see no benefit to unions whatsoever.
You are asking a loaded question. Loaded to presume all corporations are evil. Not all are. Just don't work for the ones that are. It has worked for me.

midnight Target · « **Reply #43 on:** March 31, 2006, 11:55:18 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by cpxxx
Ok, without going into details simply put: I accidently marked the first part from a lot with the coding for the previous lot. It was discovered at the inspection end of the line quite properly as that is their job. But in fact I would have realised it had happened once I reached the end of the current lot anyway once the figures didn't add up. But it was found and pointed out to me before I finished. I held my hands up, made no excuses and tried to figure out how it happened. This is medical equipment related so errors are taken seriously particularly when the FDA are on the prowl. However similar or more serious errors have happened before (not to me) without anyone being disciplined or suspended.

I believe a certain individual who has a quality function told my supervisor they wanted me pulled off the line or else! Leaving him no choice. Quality in there act more like fascist police than in any place I worked before. You actually have to be careful what you say around them. Even the supervisor is scared of them. Little people with power. It's always the same. I never clashed with any of them but I was singled out in a most subtle manner. Initially I thought they treated everyone like that until colleagues pointed out that they seemed to have it in for me and to watch my back. Well now they got their chance.

Why? I don't know.

That really sucks.

I run the QA department where I work. One of the 1st things I tell my inspectors is that their job is to be a part of the solution, not just to find errors. If they go on a power trip it ruins the morale of the entire company. They also need to be diplomatic. Diplomacy is the art of telling someone his daughter is ugly without pissing him off.

Sounds like they need to suspend the process controll guy for designing a system that allows you to make an error. Then they can suspend the QC for not finding the root cause of the problem. Then they can suspend the President of the company for poor leadership....

you need a new job.

Hangtime · « **Reply #44 on:** March 31, 2006, 11:55:47 AM »

Skuzzy.. I don't disagree. Just take into account that your intelligence and your job skill set are not the kinda working skill or brainpower a plumber or assembly line worker brings to the table. Because they ain't as bright doesn't mean they ain't as deserving of a fair wage for their work.

Unions may be a disease.. but the cure could very well be worse for the american work force.