US to use nuclear weapons against Iran?

[Eagler]

Originally posted by Dowding
Eagler, you do realise that all fissionable material can be traced back to source very easily? It might as well have 'Made in Iran' on it. Atomic forensics is a very advanced science and there is an international body that specialises in just such a task.

yeah, I saw Sum of All Fears .. Ben Aflack did it in under 15 minutes after crawling out of a helicopter crash didn't he?

I do not want to have to track anything back as I do not want to have it happen in the first place ...

[Dowding]

I agree. But I think we are in 'Ben Afleck saves the world' Hollywood land if we think Iran can develop the technology to build a bomb, design a method of reliable deployment and then smuggle it around half the world inside something the size of a suitcase.

While suicide may be purported as a noble endeavour by Islamic extremists, the upper echelons of the extremist government in Tehran prefer to sit around drinking tea and delegate. I should think a nuke in New York might compromise that.

For me, diplomacy looks like a better option.

[Staga]

See Rule #5

[RAIDER14]

Originally posted by Schwein
And what? You'll take my picture?

do you not see the hellfire miissile on the wing???

[Maverick]

Originally posted by Dowding
I agree. But I think we are in 'Ben Afleck saves the world' Hollywood land if we think Iran can develop the technology to build a bomb, design a method of reliable deployment and then smuggle it around half the world inside something the size of a suitcase.

While suicide may be purported as a noble endeavour by Islamic extremists, the upper echelons of the extremist government in Tehran prefer to sit around drinking tea and delegate. I should think a nuke in New York might compromise that.

For me, diplomacy looks like a better option.

Disregarding the suitcase limitations, the delivery of a nuclear device to a target in the US is certainly feasable. It doesn't even have to be a suicide delivery. It's called container shipping. Given that an estimated 5% of containers are inspected that leaves a 95% chance it wouldn't be detected. Even if it were detected it would still be a significant threat to any harbor where the device had been found.

A single container with a nuclear device loaded on a ship and sent to a major harbor would be a devastating impact on shipping not to mention the extreme amount of contamination from the remains of the ship, containers and harbor being blown into the atmosphere at the point of detonation.

Yep you "might" be able to trace the fissionable materials but the damage would already have been done.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Yeah, tracing it after the fact doesn't revive the dead or heal the maimed.

Iran is a rogue state. It isn't the general population, it's the fact that at any time a nutjob can gain power there, even if only for a short period of time. One nutjob who doesn't care whether he lives or dies with access to nuclear weapons is all it takes. And once he does it, it's done. I wonder why that is so hard to understand for some people.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Dowding, how much will it matter to you if a rogue state supplies a nuclear device that is exploded wiping out a city on your country, or worse yet, some of your family, if the material is traceable? Exactly what difference will the material being traceable make?

Further, it is only traceable IF you have access to and knowledge of some of the material it originated from. If a rogue state had it to begin with, and you don't know how/where they got it, how are you going to trace it? And if those who possessed and supllied it don't care if you know or not, what difference will it make?

The dead will arleadey be dead, the maimed will already be maimed, and the area will already be destroyed. Tracing the origins of the materials used to do it will not change the state of the persons and places already damaged or destroyed. It will still remain the same.

[Stringer]

Hey Virgil,
Kind of like tangible evidence that Iraq could launch WMD's within 30-45 minutes.

That kind of thinking?

Absolutely, invade, nuke, bomb, whatever, Iran on your suspision or your what-if scenerio...it worked to get us into Iraq.

I have no problem taking action, IF we have absolute proof of existence and intention.

Those two things were missing in Iraq.

[Maverick]

Originally posted by Stringer
Hey Virgil,
Kind of like tangible evidence that Iraq could launch WMD's within 30-45 minutes.

That kind of thinking?

Absolutely, invade, nuke, bomb, whatever, Iran on your suspision or your what-if scenerio...it worked to get us into Iraq.

I have no problem taking action, IF we have absolute proof of existence and intention.

Those two things were missing in Iraq.

Using your own specifications, absolute proof of existance AND intentions will only be known after the mushroom cloud had appeared. A bit late then don't you think.

[Hangtime]

The concept of 'pre-emptive invasion and occupation' has been pretty well proven to be untenable.

Leaves us with doing nothing or cutting off the head of the snake.

Cutting off the head of the snake will incense the Islamic movement.

Doing nothing hands the 'action' ball to Israel.

Match, game; set.

[Dowding]

You are missing the point. The Iranian leadership will have already considered the implications of being involved in any nuclear attack. It will result in assured destruction through massive retaliatory nuclear strike. I will repeat what I said above - the extremist leadership of Iran delegates the suicide mantra. You only have to look at groups such as Hamas to see how the delegation is done. Why would they want to utterly destroyed themselves?

Further, it is only traceable IF you have access to and knowledge of some of the material it originated from.

Virgil - you're simply wrong about the traceability of nuclear weapons. Do some reading up. Any radioactive substance can be traced, not only through the isotopic fingerprint, but through applying conventional forensic science.

FSC scientists have learned that analyzing the materials accompanying a radioactive sample is as important as characterizing the sample. These so-called route materials—such as containers, fingerprints, fibers, and pollen—provide attribution details about who has handled a sample or the path it has traveled. In the Bulgarian seizure, for example, Livermore scientists used FTIR to confirm that the yellow wax was paraffin. XRF results indicated the yellow coloring was barium chromate, an additive rarely used in Western countries because of environmental concerns but commonly used in Brazil, China, India, and Eastern Europe. Optical microscopy of the paper surrounding the ampoule and the label on the container showed that both of these were a mixture of hardwood and softwood tree fibers commonly found in Eastern Europe.

Source

[Stringer]

I don't Mav, we spent ALOT of resources during the cold war accessing existence AND INTENTIONS.  I believe Toad may have even been a cog in that wheel at one point.

How is now any different?

So Mav, are you suggesting we nuke them now, and if not now, when exactly?

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Dowding
Why would they want to utterly destroyed themselves?

The western mind still can't come to grips with the 'kamakazi' mentality.. yours is no exception, apparently.

[Dowding]

Emperor Hirohito didn't fall on his sword or throw himself from a cliff. You don't understand the kamikaze concept either, apparently.

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Stringer

So Mav, are you suggesting we nuke them now, and if not now, when exactly?

I'd answer 'Yes, do it NOW'. Playing 'Whack a Mole' in the ungoverned territory of Pakistan with Tac Nukes is a good start. Then tell Iran that every government building associated with Nuclear Power will be a smoking 1/4 mile wide glass sheet inside 72 hours if they don't fold the program and allow IEC inspection immediately.

Screw world opinion. Time to get ugly with Islamic Fundamentalist Regimes is past due.