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Author Topic: US to use nuclear weapons against Iran?  (Read 4009 times)

Offline Hangtime

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US to use nuclear weapons against Iran?
« Reply #120 on: April 11, 2006, 02:04:54 PM »
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Originally posted by Dowding
Emperor Hirohito didn't fall on his sword or throw himself from a cliff. You don't understand the kamikaze concept either, apparently.


And the fact he wasn't deposed by Coup in the final hours before the surrender was a very close run thing.

Islamic Jihad is all about dying for God, taking as many infidels with 'em as possible. Smarten up, Dowding.
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Offline Maverick

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US to use nuclear weapons against Iran?
« Reply #121 on: April 11, 2006, 02:05:27 PM »
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Originally posted by Stringer
I don't Mav, we spent ALOT of resources during the cold war accessing existence AND INTENTIONS.  I believe Toad may have even been a cog in that wheel at one point.

How is now any different?

So Mav, are you suggesting we nuke them now, and if not now, when exactly?


First off I did not say we should do any particular action what so ever. I just pointed out that your proposal eliminated any response until after the attack has been carried out. Mere reaction is always taken from a position of loss in the first stages of any conflict. If you are comfortable with that position that is one thing. I hope you and your family are not in the impact zone when the first attack is made.

The ONLY way to be certain of intentions is to wait for the event to occur. Until then it is always an assumption on the part of the one waiting for the intention to be solidified. Insisting on absolute proof of intention is a strategy of inertia. Intelligence operations are never a case of surety until they are already history.
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Offline Elfie

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US to use nuclear weapons against Iran?
« Reply #122 on: April 11, 2006, 02:47:27 PM »
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FSC scientists have learned that analyzing the materials accompanying a radioactive sample is as important as characterizing the sample. These so-called route materials—such as containers, fingerprints, fibers, and pollen—provide attribution details about who has handled a sample or the path it has traveled. In the Bulgarian seizure, for example, Livermore scientists used FTIR to confirm that the yellow wax was paraffin. XRF results indicated the yellow coloring was barium chromate, an additive rarely used in Western countries because of environmental concerns but commonly used in Brazil, China, India, and Eastern Europe. Optical microscopy of the paper surrounding the ampoule and the label on the container showed that both of these were a mixture of hardwood and softwood tree fibers commonly found in Eastern Europe.



Just curious.....how is this done after the radioactive material has been blown to smithereens?
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Offline RAIDER14

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US to use nuclear weapons against Iran?
« Reply #123 on: April 11, 2006, 02:50:25 PM »
how many nukes fired at the same time does it take to destroy the planet???:confused:
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Offline Stringer

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US to use nuclear weapons against Iran?
« Reply #124 on: April 11, 2006, 03:08:00 PM »
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Originally posted by Maverick
First off I did not say we should do any particular action what so ever. I just pointed out that your proposal eliminated any response until after the attack has been carried out. Mere reaction is always taken from a position of loss in the first stages of any conflict. If you are comfortable with that position that is one thing. I hope you and your family are not in the impact zone when the first attack is made.

The ONLY way to be certain of intentions is to wait for the event to occur. Until then it is always an assumption on the part of the one waiting for the intention to be solidified. Insisting on absolute proof of intention is a strategy of inertia. Intelligence operations are never a case of surety until they are already history.


I know you haven't say anything, hence my direct question to you, which you didn't answer.....What do YOU recommend we do to insure our safety from Iran?

I don't need you to recap my position for me....I'm the one that stated it, remember?  Instead of picking apart my stance, tell me yours.

And I've already stated want I can live with....and yes pre-emptive action is an option for me, but we'd better have good intelligence, and quite frankly, with the money we spend on National Security, Homeland Security, Defense, Intelligence Agencies, we should have better than we are getting.  

After the fact is not the only way to be sure....Intelligence, human and otherwise can give us a very good read on the situation....you seem to discount that...I can understand why, given the Admin's current use of questionable intelligence.

It used to be, we had a pretty darn good pulse on existence and intentions, I'd like us to get back to that.
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Offline airguard

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US to use nuclear weapons against Iran?
« Reply #125 on: April 11, 2006, 03:14:23 PM »
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Originally posted by john9001
this is not WW2, you do not fight a new war by the tactics of the last war.


history suck......
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Offline lasersailor184

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US to use nuclear weapons against Iran?
« Reply #126 on: April 11, 2006, 03:17:52 PM »
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Emperor Hirohito didn't fall on his sword or throw himself from a cliff. You don't understand the kamikaze concept either, apparently.


Dowding, just stop talking, you're embarassing yourself.


You won't understand this concept until you understand why any Japanese pre-hiro-naga would kill himself when the emperor asked him or her to.

You understand this, and you'll understand the islamic movement also.
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Offline Stringer

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US to use nuclear weapons against Iran?
« Reply #127 on: April 11, 2006, 03:21:32 PM »
I just thought of something....

The ironic part in all of this, is in the old days, we would have used Saddam to counter-act Iran.
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Offline Stringer

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US to use nuclear weapons against Iran?
« Reply #128 on: April 11, 2006, 03:26:17 PM »
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Originally posted by Maverick
Using your own specifications, absolute proof of existance AND intentions will only be known after the mushroom cloud had appeared. A bit late then don't you think.


Actually, I just re-read this....my specifications do not state this at all.  It is possible to have proof of existance and determine intentions before, not after.   Isn't this EXACTLY what Bush did?

Doesn't one of our Intelligence Agencies actually have a bureau to do just that....determine intentions?
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Offline Maverick

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US to use nuclear weapons against Iran?
« Reply #129 on: April 11, 2006, 05:34:13 PM »
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Originally posted by Stringer

I have no problem taking action, IF we have absolute proof of existence and intention.



Stringer,

This is the only part of the post I was attempting to get clarified. You specified absolute proof of both existance AND intentions.

Please define what constitutes ABSOLUTE PROOF of intention.

It is my contention, depending on what you specify constitutes absolute proof of intention, that the only absolute proof is after the weapon is detonated in the case of an attack with a nuclear weapon. In that case it isn't an exercise in intelligence gathering, it's simply a historical data gathering process.

I don't think there will ever be absolute proof of intention before some kind of action has to be taken. You seem to think there is so tell me what it is.
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Offline Stringer

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US to use nuclear weapons against Iran?
« Reply #130 on: April 11, 2006, 06:24:48 PM »
Mav,
How about you just answer my damn question!  What do YOU recommend we do with regards to Iran and this nuclear issue?  Come on..it's not hard to verbalize your stance on this.   Unless you don't have one.  If so, just say it, and stop nitpicking mine :)

You keep wanting to pick apart my stance...  Let me clarify my intention statement.....Better proof of intentions (hell existence for that matter) than we had with Iraq....that should help.  And you damn well know we are capable of better Intelligence than was shown for Iraq.  

Now, stop dancing on the head of my pin and state your position please :)
« Last Edit: April 11, 2006, 06:28:25 PM by Stringer »
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Offline Elfie

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US to use nuclear weapons against Iran?
« Reply #131 on: April 11, 2006, 06:43:37 PM »
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And you damn well know we are capable of better Intelligence than was shown for Iraq.


A big part of the problem with the intel for Iraq was the different intel services werent sharing information like they should have been. To much rivalry garbage between them imo. That has been addressed by the Bush administration.

I dont get why they werent sharing info in the first place. They are all on the same team last time I checked.
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Offline Maverick

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US to use nuclear weapons against Iran?
« Reply #132 on: April 11, 2006, 08:34:24 PM »
Stringer,

I'll have no problem answering the question you asked me once you answer the one I asked you first.

To make it still fresh, what will fit the definition of absolute proof of existance and intent?
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Offline Stringer

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US to use nuclear weapons against Iran?
« Reply #133 on: April 11, 2006, 08:37:55 PM »
Fine Mav,

You don't want to answer....I won't play your game.  I stated my position, you choose not to state yours.

You don't need clarification on my stance to put yours out there and you know that.

Oh, and to make it fresh....just pony up, and then we can both play the what the definetion of "is" is....  Right now, it's a little one-sided...of course only one person in this dialogue has actually given a stance, and it ain't you.

Have a nice day.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2006, 08:41:33 PM by Stringer »
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Offline Maverick

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US to use nuclear weapons against Iran?
« Reply #134 on: April 11, 2006, 09:06:47 PM »
Stringer,

If you can't answer the question just say so, don't try and push it off on me. All I asked was for you to explain what your position statement meant. Instead you try and make it my fault that the "conversation is over".

You stated the premise that would be needed for action, absolute proof of existance and intent. I wanted to know what absolute proof of intent would be. I told you already that I felt absolute proof of intent would only be known after the fact.

If you are going to be upset about it that's not my fault and your choice.

Personally I don't have a "preference" for an action to take. I think, and I'm being pessimistic I know, that some action will have to be taken before they have the oportunity to fabricate a weapon. I have serious doubts that there is a purely "political" solution to it. Frankly I am not sure there is really any "good" way to take care of it given the Iranian president's stated position. If they would have an accident in the refining plant or a small reaction in the assembly plant it might make an impression. Don't assume I am calling for an outside source to provide the accident, I'm not. That is just about the only way I think they will back off on their own.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2006, 09:16:28 PM by Maverick »
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