Author Topic: Oh my! Bush has lost his luster?!? Let the fun begin!  (Read 3234 times)

Offline leonid

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Oh my! Bush has lost his luster?!? Let the fun begin!
« on: February 08, 2001, 09:00:00 AM »
Democrats rip into 'charming' Bush
February 7, 2001
Web posted at: 3:51 PM EST (2051 GMT)


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Bush has charmed a number of Democrats on Capitol Hill with his engaging personality, yet many have begun to revolt against what they see as his heartless proposals.

On the eve of Bush presenting to Congress a recommendation to cut taxes by $1.6 trillion over 10 years, Democrats were up in arms on Wednesday, charging the package would cost too much, go largely to the rich and, despite promises to the contrary, leave a number of children behind.

"There is going to be one hell of a fight over this and there should be," vowed U.S. House of Representatives Democratic Whip David Bonior of Michigan.

"George W. Bush is not going to be able to charm himself in to a big tax cut," said Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones, an Ohio Democrat and member of the Congressional Black Caucus.

"I think the White House and Republicans up here have underestimated the resolve by Democrats to take them on," said Sen. Paul Wellstone, a Minnesota Democratic.

The White House and congressional Republicans have been openly giddy over Bush's ability to reach out to Democrats, often one on one, since taking office on Jan. 20.

House Republican Whip Tom DeLay of Texas has credited Bush with helping set a new bipartisan tone in the Republican-led Congress.

"This is what we have long needed," DeLay said last Friday after Bush addressed a Republican retreat in Williamsburg, Virginia, where he preached cooperation, not confrontation.

Yet it is an open question how much cooperation there will be when it comes to cutting taxes, improving education and expanding Social Security and Medicare -- all Bush priorities.

Sen. Edward Kennedy, a Massachusetts Democratic who joined Bush for a movie at the White House last week, said he expects to work with the new president on education.

But Kennedy called a news conference on Wednesday to announce introduction of a bill to increase the federal minimum wage, and to denounce Bush's stand on the issue.

"President Bush supports raising the minimum wage, but only if the states have the option of rejecting the increase," said Kennedy, the leading liberal voice on Capitol Hill.

"Allowing states to opt out violates the nation's 60-year-old commitment to the principle that working men and women are entitled to a fair minimum wage," Kennedy said.

On Tuesday, Kennedy challenged Bush on a campaign promise to bring Republicans and Democrats together on a patients bill of rights.

Kennedy did so by joining Sen. John McCain of Arizona, who had competed against Bush for the 2000 Republican presidential nomination, in introducing a bill of their own.

Bush promptly raised objections to the measure, opposed by industry groups, and said he wanted more time to craft his own legislation.

"George W. Bush, like many people born with a silver spoon in his mouth, can be very charming," said Rep. Maurice Hinchey, a New York Democrat.

"He can smile and he can tell a joke, but let's not confuse substance with charm," Hinchey said. "And he's not half as smart as (former Democratic President) Bill Clinton."

Hinchey was among a dozen members of the congressional Progressive Caucus who held a news conference on Wednesday to denounce the Bush tax cut.

They charged that the proposed tax relief would go mainly to the wealthy at the expense of the middle class and not leave enough for a number of federal efforts, particularly ones to improve education.

"He says he doesn't want to leave any child behind, but his tax cut would force us to leave a number of children behind," said Wellstone.

Senate Democratic Leader Tom Daschle sent Bush a letter on Wednesday, asking him to vow not to dip into the Medicare surplus to fund tax cuts or spending plans.

In the letter, co-signed by Sen. Kent Conrad, a North Dakota Democrat, Daschle asked Bush to "reconsider your position ... and take a pledge to safeguard both the Social Security and Medicare surpluses with 'lockbox' protections."

Speaking with reporters, Daschle and Conrad also argued that the real cost of Bush's proposed tax cut would be $2.6 trillion, and said the nation cannot afford it.

"I don't think think we can persuade him" to back off the proposal, Daschle said.

"But our hope is that we can persuade Republican colleagues and the American people about the ill-advised approach that this represents," Daschle said.

"Ill-advised because of (uncertain) projections, ill-advised because of unfairness and ill-advised because it is far more expensive than we can afford," Daschle said.

ingame: Raz

Offline Ripsnort

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Oh my! Bush has lost his luster?!? Let the fun begin!
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2001, 09:03:00 AM »
Nice to see we have our own politicians drawing lines in the sand...thus creating more friction between the parties, and less offered to the american public.

The Dems evidently are going to fight this whether the citizens want it or not, just to save face of their party.

Offline Eagler

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Oh my! Bush has lost his luster?!? Let the fun begin!
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2001, 09:11:00 AM »
You can delete a third of that, all of alcoholic teddy's spew, who cares what that womanizer thinks or wants.

As for McCain, I think he needs to change parties. He just sore he lost the Republican nomination.

All Bush can do is try, if the handsomehunk-crats filibuster - so be it.

Eagler

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Offline Mighty1

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Oh my! Bush has lost his luster?!? Let the fun begin!
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2001, 09:16:00 AM »
When it comes down to it who cares if the Demos like it or not? Can they do anything about it? NO!

At least Bush has made the effort to get along with everyone which is more than what can be said about the Demos.

The die-hards Demos are going to be against Bush no matter what he does so screw em.
I have been reborn a new man!

Notice I never said a better man.

Offline Toad

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Oh my! Bush has lost his luster?!? Let the fun begin!
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2001, 09:32:00 AM »
From the KC Star:

""Essentially, everyone who currently earns enough to pay income taxes would see their tax bills go down," said Mark Luscombe, principal analyst with CCH Inc., a tax law analysis firm in Riverwoods, Ill.

The average family of four might receive a $1,600 tax cut, but the results would vary considerably with income differences from family to family. For example, a typical two-child family earning $150,000 would see its income taxes fall to $25,580 from $31,395, a savings of $5,815, according to a CCH study. Income taxes for a two-child family earning $50,000 would drop to $1,645 from $3,620, a savings of $1,975.

Proportionally, that's a bigger cut than the wealthier family would receive, as Bush pointed out -- 55 percent for the family earning $50,000 a year vs. 19 percent for the family earning three times that."

This is just so UNFAIR!!

Why should anyone who makes less than $150,000 have to pay ANY taxes? They should have a 0% tax rate and anyone making more than $150K should have a 95% tax rate!

It's the only fair way to do it!

Imagine giving a 55% cut to the <$50K bracket and giving those d*mn >$150K bastiges 19%!!!!

It's truly, truly a disgrace. Why should the >$150K's get ANYTHING??
 
...and I'm still confused about this:

Since the <$50K taxpayers are getting a 55% cut and the >$150K taxpayers are getting a 19% cut...

How come those who pay the most in taxes still would get more money back than those who pay less taxes?

It's all sooooooooo  confusing!

 
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Eagler

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Oh my! Bush has lost his luster?!? Let the fun begin!
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2001, 09:39:00 AM »
I like the democrat analogy ... the guy making $300,000 a year can buy a Lexus with his tax break, while the $50k family can only get a new muffler for their used car  

two words:

CLASS ENVY

A dumbocrat favorite trick, pit the rich against the poor, the white against everyone else, the dumb against the intelligent, so on and so on....

Eagler
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-towd_

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Oh my! Bush has lost his luster?!? Let the fun begin!
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2001, 10:12:00 AM »
class envy ,dumocrats  get a life the day a person who would say that is taken seriously is a sad day for a democacy.

eagler i hope you are a ignorant kid cause if you are adult talking like that its sad.you have missed the whole point of a democracy.

the democrats are gonna fight the standard rich folks tax cut cause the majority of people in this country arent rich , the vast majority. they republicans have dressed this one up nicely. but its is their same old crap.

the fight is starting and you are outnumbered.

Offline Eagler

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Oh my! Bush has lost his luster?!? Let the fun begin!
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2001, 10:19:00 AM »
   
Quote
Originally posted by -towd_:
class envy ,dumocrats  get a life the day a person who would say that is taken seriously is a sad day for a democacy.

eagler i hope you are a ignorant kid cause if you are adult talking like that its sad.you have missed the whole point of a democracy.

the democrats are gonna fight the standard rich folks tax cut cause the majority of people in this country arent rich , the vast majority. they republicans have dressed this one up nicely. but its is their same old crap.

the fight is starting and you are outnumbered.

Sorry, not a kid, just ignorant .. thanks for pointing that out    

Is your answer the reallocation of wealth, the ole robin hood mentality? Sounds like communism to me.

So in your world, there shouldn't be any tax cuts? The rich (what's that over $300,000 a year - when I was a kid I thought $50k a year was rich) should pay all the taxes? Maybe every "rich" family should adopt and fund two poor families? The democrats do not want to curb their spending on entitlement programs (their voting base) thus they do not want any tax cut...
Don't you see that towd?
 
No class envy here  

Eagler



[This message has been edited by Eagler (edited 02-08-2001).]
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Offline JimBear

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Oh my! Bush has lost his luster?!? Let the fun begin!
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2001, 10:22:00 AM »
From each according to their abilities.
To each according to their needs.

that about what you espouse -towd- ?


Offline leonid

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Oh my! Bush has lost his luster?!? Let the fun begin!
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2001, 11:04:00 AM »
Allowing people to accumulate wealth without penalty is wrong.  Wealth is an excess of financial means, usually attained by absorbing the financial means of other people through an ingenious form of economic bribery, called supply and demand.  And if you're a person of christian persuasion it's also a good way of going to hell.  At least, that's my interpretation of that thing Jesus said about pushing a camel through the eye of a needle being an easier task than a rich guy making it to nirvana.
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Offline Ripsnort

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Oh my! Bush has lost his luster?!? Let the fun begin!
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2001, 11:15:00 AM »
Leonid, what about us that started our adult working lives with $100 and a suitcase full of clothes 1700 miles from the nearest relative, renting a room for $50 a month, sleeping on the floor near a hot plate for warmth, a pile of broken bricks used for tossing at the drunken and drugged bums trying to climb in the window from the nearby alley while flicking cockroaches out from the tattered blanket, eating snickers candy bars for lunch and dinner because I could not afford real food until I found a job?

Those of us that payed for our own education by working not only late evenings but 2 jobs just so  we could afford to attend morning classes with little or no sleep?

Those of us who worked our tulips off to attain a 6 digit income for our families?

Those of us that devote our time to the underpriveledged, that give cash to childrens hospitals for terminally ill children?

You gonna penalized us that have payed the price of poverty, but managed to work our fingers to the bone and pull ourselves up by the bootstraps and didn't quit?

That's the difference between Republicans and Democrats:

Republicans want to bring those in the lower class up, Democrats want to drag those in the upper class down.



[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 02-08-2001).]

Offline Kieren

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Oh my! Bush has lost his luster?!? Let the fun begin!
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2001, 11:16:00 AM »
Wealth without penalty is wrong? On what grounds? It is entirely possible that wealth can be accumulated without exploitation. It is just as possible the opposite can be true, but it seems a bit odd to automatically assume that all wealth is gathered through evil.

As far as your quote on "It is far easier to pass a camel through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven" is concerned, it is out of context in my religion (Baptist). There is no evil in possession, only in valuing possessions over the will of God. The Bible has many examples of men who were rich and Godly, so these terms are not mutually exclusive. Abraham, Isiaih, Moses... all were very rich by the standards of the day, but they are pillars of the Old Testament.

I counter with this idea; it is not right to rip something out of the hands of one child and give it to another simply because one has and the other doesn't. You encourage sharing, sure, but you do not force it. The trouble with what some espouse wrt the distribution of wealth is that it is somehow the government's purpose to see that the wealth is redistributed. This is fundamentally flawed: it removes the incentive to acquire wealth, and; it removes the incentive to provide for yourself. After all, if you have nothing the goverment will give you something. As long as you set your standards low enough you may never need work a day in your life.

[This message has been edited by Kieren (edited 02-08-2001).]

Offline Yeager

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Oh my! Bush has lost his luster?!? Let the fun begin!
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2001, 11:19:00 AM »
Allowing people to accumulate wealth without penalty is wrong.
================
Im aghast at this one.  Not so much for your intent leonid, because I think I get what your saying, mostly.  What is repulsive to me is the manner in which you express it.

More and more people want to socialize our society, taking away the individuals right to pursue life liberty and happiness as that individual sees fit.  Instead, socialists want to create and enforce a maximum level of acheivement that none of the participants can exceed.

I know what this mentality does to the human spirit.  I do not want people with these types of views anywhere near my constitution.

It reeks and I wont accept it.

Yeager  
(the smiley face means Im just expressing myself freely and really dont care what anyone else thinks of my beliefs)


[This message has been edited by Yeager (edited 02-08-2001).]
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Offline Toad

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Oh my! Bush has lost his luster?!? Let the fun begin!
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2001, 11:21:00 AM »
Leonid, please give us an absolutely unequivocable definition of "wealth" or "wealthy" in this tax debate. What level would be the "excess of financial means"? At what height on Maslow's hierarchy does this occur?

LOL.

Leonid: "Allowing people to accumulate wealth without penalty is wrong."

Yeah...I see it now! This Progressive Tax thing is WAY TOO LENIENT!

If some bastige gets rich, I say we HANG the mo-fo! That'll teach the rest of them!

Especially the ones like Rip describes that started with nothing and got "rich". They deserve the MOST punishment! Uppity bastiges!

ROF, LM-F-AO!

You guys are sure entertaining!

 
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Ripsnort

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Oh my! Bush has lost his luster?!? Let the fun begin!
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2001, 11:27:00 AM »
Spot on Yeager and Kieren..this kind of talk just scares the living crap out of me...to think their are individuals living in a free enterprize country like this...un-be-lieveable...