Flight training CFI

[0GravPirate]

Hey

I have been thinking about going to a school for flight training and a carreer. So far i have found 2 schools that look promising. LangaAir and the National Pilot Academy... Both promise a fast track to the airlines with a 100% placement guarantee, CFI work after training to build hours and training on many engine configurations. NPA offers a chance to stay on as a CFI after my initial CFI period which means i could build a career as a CFI if i wish, on the other hand...Langa only offers an initial CFI program to build hours and after that they get you an interview with gojet.

LangaAir charges 44k for their training
NPA charges 54k to 60k

NPA seems like the way to go because of the chance to stay on as a CFI after you have built your hours over 1000. NPA also surprised me with more fees like a $500 fee for holding a seat before i even get to the training area, however langa does not.

Other than picking the right school theres the matter of the money required to attend. This is a huge barrier for me. Our family just doesnt have the credit for the funds to get approved. A co-signer or a sponser is needed so it is still very possible... It would also require me to move the family across country.

I really want to do this...more than anything i have wanted to do before. I have wanted this since the 4th grade. I have given much thought into getting my license for some time but was unaware i could get into a career so easily.

Does anyone have ANY information on these schools like first hand experience or horror stories? Does anyone know of any other schools that offer a CFI program that grads can jump straight into for building experience and hours? Any info would be helpfull in deciding he right school.

[Wolfala]

Where do you live in the country? If u do all of the ratings - it will run you around 30K or so if you knock them out in 1 shot.

[Golfer]

If you go to a large academy (PanAm, FlightSafety, DCA, RAA etc...) I'll poke fun and call you a dork.

All those places charge lots of money and you leave with minimum qualifications.  If you take some responsibility for yourself and your training you can...on a budget of $30,000 like Wolfala said...come out with maximum experience for your time and be an honest to goodness contributor to the aviation community.

While I can't say anything bad about many of the people who have gone/go to the large academies...I can't say anything good about the academies themselves.

Or you can go to ATP and "fast track" your way into a pencil jet.

I've also never heard of Langa.

My rough timeline.  Note the "yaay" and "boo" and when they occur.

July 2002: Got job as line service at local FBO/Flight School
Aug 2002: Intro Flight 0.8 hrs...yaay!
June 2003: Private Pilot - 60 hrs...yaay!
Feb 2004: Private Multi - 220 hrs...yaay!
March 2004: Instrument - 250 hrs...yaay!
June 2004: Commercial Single/Multi - 300hrs...yaay!
Feb/Mar 2005: CFI/CFII/MEI - 750hrs...yaay!
Apr 2005: Signed up first multiengine checkride...yaay!
Jul 2005: Good gig as contract pilot flying Mooney & Cirrus...yaay!
Oct 2005: Lead on Citation gig...yaay!
Jan 2006: Interview for Citation gig...yaay!
Apr 2006: Call for Citation gig...yaay!
Apr 2006: New Job/Citation Type. - 1400hrs yaay!
May 2006: Sitting in Kenosha, WI on a slow computer waiting for pax...boo!
Woke up at 0300 this morning, stopped at the store to pick up papers/donuts for their "early" departure for which they were late...boo!
Had a smooooooooth landing though...yaay!

[yayyyy]

you call golfer?

[DamnedRen]

Originally posted by 0GravPirate
Hey
I have been thinking about going to a school for flight training and a carreer. So far i have found 2 schools that look promising. LangaAir and the National Pilot Academy... Both promise a fast track to the airlines with a 100% placement guarantee, CFI work after training to build hours and training on many engine configurations. NPA offers a chance to stay on as a CFI after my initial CFI period which means i could build a career as a CFI if i wish, on the other hand...Langa only offers an initial CFI program to build hours and after that they get you an interview with gojet.

Great idea. If you're doing it for the love of flying and not too worried about salary that's great! If you want the great life, lots of money during your career and divorce a couple of wives to give some of it too then it's bad time in the economy.

First the bad news and this isn't meant to burst your bubble but give you a small dose of reality.

Majors are cutting back everywhere. Opportunites are there for the Regionals but the big majors average 8,000 new resumes from pilots with the necessary qualifications, monthly. And that's 8,000 per airline....the competition is steep with military pilots with lots of hard Pilot in Command (PIC) turbine time who are either getting rifted or leaving for civilian jobs. There are also many laid off major airline pilots out there looking for the golden parachute.

Most majors require a minimum of:
College Degree
1000 hours logged PIC time in a turbine aircraft. C172's won't cut it.
Second Officers written
ATP is a plus

The hardest of the top list is the 1000 hours. FAR's limit max domestic flight hours to 1000 hours per year. Unless you work for a major airline you won't get near that and for the first few years you won't get much PIC time because that guy in the left seat is doing what you're trying to accomplish. He's senior so he gets it all first. Then you get your turn. Years go by. BUT, it's flying time which is good!

Another real concern your Dad might not have told you about (read pun here ) is if there are 8000 qualified pilots banging on your door monthly and you have 4500 pilots working for you. Do you think that the airline is gonna look at an unknown first or someone, with the same number or hours, that another pilot already working in the cockpit recommends? There is an old saying in the industry. Would you wanna sit next to that guy for 8 hours a day for 16 days a month?

Ok, now the good news. There are some pretty good colleges that can get you through alot of the flight tickets while you're there. Embry Riddle comes to mind. North Dakota had a pretty good aviation program and I think Middle Tennessee started an aviation program in the past few years. As far as ATP and S/O's written you can usually do a weekend course at the local airpport for around $200-300 and pass those. You STILL have to get the required flight time and P-51 time (loggin 5 hours for every 1 hour of actual) won't cut it. They really do check the logs.

I guess you need to take a close look at just how far you want to take it and make a committment to do it.
Most of those schools who say, "we'll find you work"...can't. A buddy of mine is a major airline mechanic who makes a great living off his mechanics salary. He also has 7600 teaching hours in a 172. I asked why he didn't pursue the big bucks and is answer? "it's in a 172". Now he's happy just where he is. He met the goals he wanted to meet. When he finally he retires I'll bet he continues to teach in the Cessna's.
My son is a Regional Jet Airline Captain who is planning on upgrading to a major soon. That's his goal and he's gonna make it. Another buddy flew Buff's in vietnam then taught T-38's until he joined a major airline.  He just retired two years ago. As a senior Captain he was flying afternoon one leggers, with early morning returns. Not a bad life, getting up at 10am, deprting for the west coast with an arrival of 430pm.
Then up at 6am for an arrival back home at noon. He was working 16 days a month. He doesn't mow his lawn, he has a pool guy come 2x a week, he has maid service so his wife doesn't have to clean. He owns a nice little place on Greers Ferry Lake where he keeps his 21 ft ski boat and wave riders.  He put both his kids through college and just bought his oldest kid who is graduating this year, one of those brand new 2006 Honda Pickups with the big package, gps and all that crap, (you talk to it instead of turning knobs lol). Not bad to just take the cash outa the bank, wot? He's at the top of the heap.

So you are the one who can choose just how far you want to take it. You can have a different job and fly on the side teaching others to fly. My buddy teaching is telling me there are more new students than there have been in the past 15 years. You can fly feeder aircraft. You can fly corporate planes/jets as a job. You can fly the regionals and then on up through the major airlines. There are lots of flight jobs out there. And, I bet there's one for you. But you're the one who makes the choices. BTW, there are some major airline pilots who've been laid off who fly in AH2.

There's lots more to tell but there are many colleges now that offer aviation related degrees. Take a look at those also. There is no fast track to the majors but some outfits make your think there are and will take your money as you try to get there.

Oh yeah...I bet you can guess where I might work.....

Hope this helps.

Ren

[DAVENRINO]

Ren,
I agree with your excellent post.  I came up through the civilian route starting with Flight Instructor, Air Taxi and Corporate.  The last 19 years with a Major Airline are unquestionably the best of my aviation career.  All 19 years were flying International routes and I am fortunate enough to still have a great job; although it was a lot better before 9/11.

0GravPirate,
Good luck, you have a lot of choices ahead.

[0GravPirate]

thanks for replying all

Allow me to put the links up for both of the schools i mentioned so we can further review them.

LangaAir   http://www.langaair.com/

NPA          http://www.nationalpilotacademy.com/


The main reason im considering these is the fact that they both guarantee you a job as a CFI for 12 months to build up hours so they can set you up with an affiliate airline(s) who pick up "100%" of the grads of these schools. Langa has Gojet and NPA has southwest or something.

They are regional airlines.

Now NPA offers you the chance to stay on as a CFI after your first 12 months. Of course im not going to make big money if i go this route but my reasons are not money motivated. I would be happy to fly for free the money is a bonus. According to NPA i could make as much as 40k a year just as a CFI and when i get sick of that i could go with their affiliate.

Both of these schools state that their airline affiliates are knocking down their doors for their new grads to fill their ranks. As stated they say they have a 100% placement rate with these airlines. They also say that in about 5 years i could be a captain and making big money.

Another thing they are saying is that the older pilots who were in Nam or what have you are starting to retire and there has never been a better time to pursue a career. They say something about a need for fresh blood.

Im going to post again with an email i recieved today outlining the NPA program.

[0GravPirate]

thanks for replying all  

Allow me to put the links up for both of the schools i mentioned so we can further review them.

LangaAir http://www.langaair.com/

NPA http://www.nationalpilotacademy.com/


The main reason im considering these is the fact that they both guarantee you a job as a CFI for 12 months to build up hours so they can set you up with an affiliate airline(s) who pick up "100%" of the grads of these schools. Langa has Gojet and NPA has southwest or something.

They are regional airlines.

Now NPA offers you the chance to stay on as a CFI after your first 12 months. Of course im not going to make big money if i go this route but my reasons are not money motivated. I would be happy to fly for free  the money is a bonus. According to NPA i could make as much as 40k a year just as a CFI and when i get sick of that i could go with their affiliate.

Both of these schools state that their airline affiliates are knocking down their doors for their new grads to fill their ranks. As stated they say they have a 100% placement rate with these airlines. They also say that in about 5 years i could be a captain and making big money.

Another thing they are saying is that the older pilots who were in Nam or what have you are starting to retire and there has never been a better time to pursue a career. They say something about a need for fresh blood.

Im going to post again with an email i recieved today outlining the NPA program.

[0GravPirate]

It was good speaking with you yesterday. I look forward to helping you achieve the dream of having a successful career as an airline pilot.


National Pilot Academy is a career orientated flight school that provides an accelerated training program allowing students to transition into their pilot careers after successful completion of our program. We maintain limited availability within our program which makes it possible for us to provide one-on-one training with a Certified Flight Instructor during every part of our training. This also allows us to hire each of our students as a Flight Instructor after just 4 months; providing them a way to earn money as they log the required hours to become airline eligible. At the end of 16 months students will have logged 1,100 flight hours and be ready to transition into their careers. National Pilot Academy has placed 100% of our students within their careers!


As you may have read on our website, Airline hiring is at its highest levels since the introductions of the domestic jet airliners in the 1960’s. The FAA requires a mandatory retirement from airline flying at age 60. With thousands of military-trained pilots from the Vietnam era hitting that age, future opportunities remain exciting. ABC News recently reported that within the next 10 years, over half of all airline pilots will be leaving the airline industry due to mandatory retirement. This means there is 19% increase in job availabilities according to current national labor and occupational statistics.


To meet the hiring demand of the airlines, National Pilot Academy has developed a program that allows you to fulfill your dream of becoming a career pilot in just 16 months. We have taken a new approach to flight training that provides the best opportunity for you to get into your career in the shortest amount of time possible. Below are some of the major differences that set NPA apart from the rest of the flight training industry.

Pilot jobs guaranteed.

Accelerated flight training consisting of 8 hour instructional days.
Dedicated one-on-one Certified Flight Instructor for all training.
Dedicated plane during your entire training.
Personalized flight training.
Become a CFI in only 4 months.
Become airline eligible in just 16 months.

We hire our own CFI graduates allowing them to earn money and log the required hours necessary to become airline eligible.
Preferential treatment with regional airlines during the hiring process.
Our airline affiliates are eager to interview and hire every pilot we train.
100% student financing.

We teach you daily on the ground; you then demonstrate up in the air.
Common syllabus for all instructors resulting in more effective and safer training.

Our training consists of seven phases that take a student from zero flight hours to the Certified Flight Instructor rating (CFI) in just 4 months. The phases consist of the following. Multi-engine training is also available.

Phase 1: Private Pilot License
Phase 2: Time Building
Phase 3: Instrument Rating
Phase 4: Time Building
Phase 5: Commercial License
Phase 6: Certified Flight Instructor (CFI)
Phase 7: Certified Flight Instrument Instructor (CFII)

Open Class Dates - You may specify which month you would like to start on the application.
May 4
May 29
June 23
July 19
August 12
September 6
September 30
October 25
November 17


To enroll within the program we require a refundable $500 security deposit to hold your desired class date. The security deposit does apply towards your tuition. I have attached the Application for Admission with this e-mail.


Please let me know if you have any questions. We look forward to helping make your dream of flying a reality.


David Knight


National Pilot Academy
http://www.nationalpilotacademy.com
david@nationalpilotacademy.com
Toll Free: 866-400-2475
Office: 520-578-3757
Fax: 520-578-3752
Ryan Airfield | Tucson, Arizona

[Golfer]

Watch out for the financing too.  Do keep in mind it takes a while to get that job, and when you get that job it takes a while to make money.

Your regional airline will pay you $20,000-$24,000 first year if you work above/beyond the call of duty.  Don't count per diem as salary.

After tax...you're looking at under $1200 or so per month.  Unless you want to live at home in your parents basement...plan accordingly and budget.

It would have been a significant pay cut for me to go to the regionals.  

Flying a speedbump in the flight levels now pays about the same as flying a Mooney and Cirrus...at least what I charged to fly a Mooney and Cirrus.

[DAVENRINO]

As Ren pointed out, beware of 100% airline placement promises.  I highly doubt that Southwest Airlines would be highly impressed with a year as a CFI in  a C-150 heavy.  That level of experience MAY be attractive to a small regional carrier where you can gain the experience the Majors are loking for.  Like Golfer, I never wanted to take the paycut to go to the regionals.  I eventually made it but I had over 7000 hours when I got hired at a Major.  I am convinced that flying for a Regional, especially with their modern "Barbie Jets", is the fastest way to the Majors.  There are other possibilities, however.  A sharp young man from our Flight Dispatch barely had a Muti Commercial Instrument rating.  A Florida freight hauler trained him as a Flight Engineer with a two year $30K training bond.  In less than a year he was in the right seat of a 727.  He will get his $30K back after completing two years with them and will be free to look for a better job.

[Golfer]

Originally posted by DAVENRINO
He will get his $30K back after completing two years with them and will be free to look for a better job.

That wouldn't be the "Jet University" thing would it?  It's kind of odd...the phone numbers for that and Gulfstream Academy are exactly the same.

Paying for the honor of raising the landing gear in a B-1900...sounds like fun!

[DAVENRINO]

Originally posted by Golfer
That wouldn't be the "Jet University" thing would it?  It's kind of odd...the phone numbers for that and Gulfstream Academy are exactly the same.

Paying for the honor of raising the landing gear in a B-1900...sounds like fun!

Nope,
I don't know the name of the company, but he paid the B727 freight operator directly and they put him through their Flight Engineer training program. He actually flew as a B727 FE with them until the next bid about 6 months later.  He held B727 First Officer on the bid and is currently flying for them in that position. He is gaining valuable jet flying experience  while getting paid and he will get back the $30k next year.  Sounds to me like a MUCH better deal than the one you are referring to.  Of course, he did have to be sharp enough to actually make it through all the training and successfully fly a transport jet with very little experience.

[DamnedRen]

Alternately......

Our Company also has a policy of hiring from within. The pilot requirements are the same but you can hire into our Company and your required to work for 1 year then you can apply for any job you are qualified for. And....here's the good part.....you are guaranteed an interview. Think about that for a minute....8,000 resumes come into the Company monthly with qualified hopefuls. 10-15 pilots are hired. Whatcha think the odds are of you getting hired from within over those 8,000 guys no one knows? .

Think about this too...the next month theres 16,000 resumes in the box.....and the next month it goes up to 24,000....

Flying for free is well and good but ya gotta pay for food and clothes and a place to live. At some you really need to have them pay you....and enough to be able to live on yer own....

BTW, if you actually think the majors will offer you a job without a college degree when they get thousands of qualified pilot applications monthly from those with educations, you will be sadly mistaken.

BTW, the advice you are getting here are from guys who have made it. Think about the difference between those who are selling you a program and those who are telling you how they did it.

Hope this helps.

Ren

[NAVCAD]

0gravPirate:

Not to jump on this wagon, I know you have gotten alot of info here and it's all good stuff.  Just want to throw my 2 cents worth in.

I flew commercial helicopters for years after I got out of the Navy.  Here are a couple of items.

1)  No one, I mean No one (not ComAir aka ConAir, Flight Safety, or anyone else) can "gaurantee you" a job at a major.  This is a recruiting ploy.

2)  as everyone else has said, it's all about "Flight Time".  I had 1300 hrs in multi-turbine helicopters, Desert Storm, Combat Time, etc.  and I couldn't get a job.

3)  I have a degree from Embry-Riddle (you know us, we train foreigners to fly into buildings....)  Great school, one of the foremost aeronautical schools in the country.  The attrition rate for wannabe pilots is extremely high.  The kids come in thinking that when they graduate they're all going to be flying G-5s for a fortune 500 company for 747-400s for Virgin.  Not going to happen.   Most have their bubble burst about midway through their second year.

4)  Take a loan and do your whole training in one shot.  Don't "cut and paste" like some do with a little here and a little there.  $30,00 pretty good estimate.

5)  If you go to a real university, or one of the flying "colleges"  if they have them take a summer internship or something of the sort.  I know United takes interns from Embry-Riddle and once in, you have already passed the first line for hireing.  essentially you automatically are put in the short pile.

Hopefully this doesn't discourage you.  I absolutely loved every minute of my career (still do although I'm not flying much anymore).

It's hard, expensive, but rewarding all the same.

Best of Luck!

Oh and by the way, in difference to all of my fixed wing bretheren....."To Fly is Heavenly.....To Hover is DEVINE...."

NAVCAD