Author Topic: Long ago in warbirds.... (Read 3419 times)

soupcan · « **Reply #45 on:** May 28, 2006, 10:59:00 PM »

quote by lazs:
A non allied vs axis, performance oriented, rolling planeset just might be what we need to get some good fights going again.

IMO:
if someone cant give u a good fight in an "uber" ride how will
they give u a better fight in a less capable airplane?

quote by lazs:
nope... you could change the planeset every day or three and then the newbies would "get to try" everything "in a fair environment" for their 2 week free trial.

IMO:
shouldn't that read "be forced to try" and"in an evironment where the vets will blow you out of yer cockpit repeatedly".

quote by lazs:
Lots are quitting now because their is no real variety or good fights.

IMO:
can u quantify "lots" for me are we talking 10s 100s or 2s and 3s?
(for me overall gameplay best when there are less than 400 on)

quote by lazs:
nope... my point is that the gameplay has gotten stale because only a few planes are useful in the arena.

IMO:
i come across almost every plane availible almost every day so i guess some people find a use for these "unuseful" rides.

FiLtH · « **Reply #46 on:** May 28, 2006, 11:47:16 PM »

Be nice if the backup arena was used for that, as well as trying new things like harder targets, and downtimes, number of troops needed etc.

Kweassa · « **Reply #47 on:** May 28, 2006, 11:47:51 PM »

No new arena, no separate "xxxx towns".

Either whatever must be done be done inside the MA as it is, or don't change it at all. Creating a new arena for 'gvs' only or 'early war only' stuff etc etc,,is the cheapest cop-out from the problem which may seem to work for a while, but would be the ultimate downfall of AH.

Be it new perks, or RPS, or whatever, it should be done in the MA so it integrates every part of what the game has to offer into the MA as a whole. Cutting of strips and pieces of the game and slamming into separate arenas will never work.

eh · « **Reply #48 on:** May 29, 2006, 12:03:56 AM »

Maybe the solution lies in modifying a feature in Air Warrior. In that game, there were always complaints about the number of Spits being flown in some of the arenas, but you could disable the enemy's Spit factories so that none were available to them. It took a lot of ordinance to do it, so some of the best battles took place over those factories which had to be bombed several times in a coordinated effort.

So here is my suggestion: take the most popular unperked late war rides, locate the factories to produce them deep inside each country's territories, and have at it. Want to eliminate the La7 for the enemy? Blow up the La-7 factories (no need to capture them, just blow em up. Make them stay down for a few hours, but make them very hard to destroy).

Another idea taken from AW. Once fuel gets down below a certain percent, make it unusable except for German rides, which could run on lower quality gas.

Another idea (my own rant). Make HQ indestructable. It's a real pain in the butt to lose radar when you have inferior numbers and are being creamed by a horde for hours. Radar should be available in the Main to all sides at all times, especially for those at a large numerical disadvantage.

BigR · « **Reply #49 on:** May 29, 2006, 01:56:38 AM »

EH... think youre right. Bringing more strat into the game would greatly improve things IMO. I wouldnt be oposed to having a "Perk Factory" where if you bombed it all perk planes would be disabled for a certain amount of time. Or maybe all planes with an ENY 6 or less. The only problem I see with this is that when a country is disadvantaged or on the brink of being reset, they would lose their perk planes. They would have to address that issue.

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #50 on:** May 29, 2006, 04:53:29 AM »

Having an aircraft factory in AH like there was in AW still won't change the "air quake" flying habits that is popular in the MA. It will only limit what player can fly and not how he flies.

ack-ack

lazs2 · « **Reply #51 on:** May 29, 2006, 09:10:56 AM »

bigr... to me... a P38 is a very fast plane. It is certainly an easy plane to b and z slow planes or dive and run in. P38 is not a plane without speed or climb.

That is what is so laughable tho (not you particularly bigr) the guys who scream about not haveing choice of not getting to fly different rides....

They don't fly but one or two planes anyway... and... they are all fast planes... they have no "choice" their "choice" is dictated by what will let them b and z a capped field in.

The ones that are saying "don't whine" or their is plenty of choice" are the ones that have it all their way right now.... their "style" is late war fast planes against slower and lower planes.... Lack of choice means lack of easy targets and them getting to fly the same uber plane or two every single day.... day in and day out. It's not about "choice" for the late war uber crowd... it's about them getting to have an advantage over enough players that they can allways find an easy kill. If they run into another uber plane they can just run.

you see many of the point potatos winning tours in slow planes? I fly an FM2... it is beyond hillarious... 6 or 8 reds will see it from their perch 5 k above me and EVERY single one will dive at me all firing for all they are worth trying to get the telling cannon head on shot on my plane... I can run and have a collection of all the fastest planes in the game chasing me... If I turn... they HO and run... some crash into the ground in the frenzy..

Guys... there is no choice in the arena right now.

others here have said that the "vets" willl beat the new guys more in my RPS arena.... How so? what good does it do the newbie to choose an lala or d9 if they can be chased down by vets in tempests or other fast planes... even 262's? Sure.. the vets may still beat the newbies but they won't do it in planes that are 20% faster.

perks? a backwards idea... the guys who should have em the least have the most of em. we have newbies with none and "vets" with so many they don't know what to do with em.... I have 22,000 perks. I could fly a tempest or 262 forever... how is that more fair for the newbie?

How is the arena we have now fair for anyone except those who claim that they "love" only the most dweeby uberplanes? How is there any variety in the MA now? what "variety" would we lose with a non ava RPS?

What real "choice" is there in the MA now? How do perks work when vets have all they could ever use?

Even maps are being made for the uber plane MA... the lack of choice in planes dictates that all the fields be too far apart... you only see early war planes when the map has some close fields of a CV is doing it's 5 minute tour.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

lazs2 · « **Reply #52 on:** May 29, 2006, 09:23:13 AM »

Sooo... all the transparent self interest on all sides.... asside...

What are the real problems with said utopia RPS?

They are only a few but they are huge.

Can you imagine the whining and BB activity when the list of what planes go in what era comes out? HT will see hundreds of posts a day here about how a plane is too fast or too slow or too agil for one era or another....

The horrible maps we have now will be even more glaringly bad during the first two eras when people will have to fly forever to get to a fight.

The first problem is not solvable. The tears and threats and begging will be horrible and constant. It is really a whole lot of work added to HT

The second is sorta self regulating...my take is that the CV's will be more useful and fights will last for hours near em with much less CV killing or FH killing... also... planes will have a tendency to meet more between fields instead of the current horde to a base.

The newbies... they will be asking still "what's the fastest?" they, 90% of em won't care if the peee 51 isn't avbailable. They won't care that they die so to vets in the same plane they are flying.

To me... It is much more embarrasing to get killed by a spit 5 or FM2 while in a spit 16 or lala than to get killed by an FM2 while in a spit 5. How does the current planeset make things good for newbies...

It is not is the answer... it is worse for them.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #53 on:** May 29, 2006, 10:47:10 AM »

La7 or Spit16 factories just adds one big porking target.

Splitting the MA into several arenas ... no ... fracturing the community is bad for business.

Perks and Attaboys are having a lot of impact on player behavior. Even though vets don't care about such things, it is what guides the newer players. And with the Quake mindset so prevalent spending perks is kind of pointless since people will go out of their way to HO or ram your expensive ride.

Early War planes put a higher premium on manoever. You don't have lots and lots of cannon, you don't have quick acceleration or a wide range of top speeds. Energy tactics still work, of course, but a lot of the garbage that goes on now in the MA just doesn't work as well with EW planes, so hopefully players would change their tactics. And carry those lessons to late war planes.

RPS will not address the Quake mentality as it pertains to porking, hording, etc. - that requires changes to the underlying mechanisms of the MA.

There will be a lot of whining about RPS. "I pay to fly a P51 and now you won't let me" ... and so on. If, however, RPS was rolled out with a handful of new Early War planes (P39, Ki-43, MiG-3, B-25) so that there was more of a rationale for the change, that could help.

In the end, though, it depends on if HT thinks RPS was a "success" in WB or not.

I think RPS could help things in the MA, but in and of itself it's not a cure-all.

killnu · « **Reply #54 on:** May 29, 2006, 10:49:22 AM »

yea, those P38G's really climb like raped apes and are real fast to boot...they can be caught on deck by a niki. super fast.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #55 on:** May 29, 2006, 11:16:31 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by killnu
yea, those P38G's really climb like raped apes and are real fast to boot...they can be caught on deck by a niki. super fast.

Did you get a better 38G then mine? I suppose it goes with being the CO. As the Permanant Latrine Officer I know mine isn't very fast at all.

Maybe if I strip off all the paint, fill in the dents, leave the ammo out and polish it up it will go faster

lazs2 · « **Reply #56 on:** May 29, 2006, 12:15:45 PM »

so you feel that you stand no chance in a pee 38 against zekes and spit 1/5 and wildcats and p40's and hellcats and 109e and f and hurri and lots of early and mid war planes?

The fact that it is maybe near the bottom of the uber plane set does not make it slow or accelerate and climb badly when faced with a dozen or more other planes. It is untouchable when flown with buddies and when using alt. It is 50 mph faster than a lot of planes in the arena that are useless at this point.

gonzo... I think gameplay would have to change somewhat with the set... there would be a lot less heading to a lightly used enemy field and taking down the ack with planes that are so fast the ack can't even hit em and then bore and zoom anyone dumb enough to try to come up.

since everyone would be about equal... there would be more meeting half way. map makeres might even realize that closer fields work for a lot of gameplay and planes.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

Guppy35 · « **Reply #57 on:** May 29, 2006, 12:21:21 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
so you feel that you stand no chance in a pee 38 against zekes and spit 1/5 and wildcats and p40's and hellcats and 109e and f and hurri and lots of early and mid war planes?

The fact that it is maybe near the bottom of the uber plane set does not make it slow or accelerate and climb badly when faced with a dozen or more other planes. It is untouchable when flown with buddies and when using alt. It is 50 mph faster than a lot of planes in the arena that are useless at this point.

gonzo... I think gameplay would have to change somewhat with the set... there would be a lot less heading to a lightly used enemy field and taking down the ack with planes that are so fast the ack can't even hit em and then bore and zoom anyone dumb enough to try to come up.

since everyone would be about equal... there would be more meeting half way. map makeres might even realize that closer fields work for a lot of gameplay and planes.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

Me thinks you misunderstand the lack of seriousness in my comment. I'm just trying to have fun. I don't care what anyone else flies

lazs2 · « **Reply #58 on:** May 29, 2006, 12:24:43 PM »

I don't particularly care what anyone else flys either so long as it is fair and leads to good gameplay.... what we have now is neither.... Not fair unless you pick a late war monster and..... late war monsters lead to poor gameplay for all but a few.

Look at the records of those who fly late war monsters and you will see that a lot of their kills are of inferior planes... they have a vested interest in an uneven arena.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

Morpheus · « **Reply #59 on:** May 29, 2006, 12:40:11 PM »

score.

get rid of rank and people will start to fly non-uber planes.

simple.