Originally posted by 68Hawk
Youre right, and in my posts, other than when noted I reffer to the 7.62x39 that is fired by the AK and SKS, amongst others. I think this is a better comparison than the .223 vs .308. The .308 just wasn't designed as an assault rifle round. Still, I am no expert.
I beg to differ. that's precisely what it was designed for.. the first 'assault rifle' was the Russian SVT-40.. firing the massive 7.62x54 round. Hard to find one with a barrell that's not shot our these days.
When the Germans began capturing them in 1940, they sent 'em back for evaluation. The troops, meanwhile; kept a fair number themselves and they employed it as a sniper weapon... a testament to it's accuracy and the ability to shoot multiple times (10 round mag) without any body movement as required with a bolt action.. sniper position isn't given away.
meanwhile, back at the arms factory, the germans used the gas operating system from the SVT in developing the MP43. Unfortunately, the Russians were unable to capitalize on their SVT-40's.. the troops just failed miserably at keeping the complicated SVT's operating. Peasants.
In the intrest of developing an automatic assault rifle for urban conflct they changed horses and introduced the PPSh.. the Gemans got the Mp43's in service first. Both the the german and the new russian weapon used a smaller cartridge.. and this is where the development of the modern 'assault carbine' split of from the companion development of the Assault RIFLE.
While all this was going on John Garand was building and refining the most competent battle rifle in history.. an outsanding companion to the worlds best SAW.. the Browning Automatic Rifle. It's no coincidence they were both firing 30-06 slugs; and they dominated on the battlefield.. fitting Savages's description of VASTLY SUPERIOR & EXCEPTIONALLY EFFECTIVE perfectly.
Postwar, the East went with refinements of the SMG/PPSh path, developing first the SKS, and shortly thereafter, the AK47. While the Allies and the Axis slugged it out in Europe, the weapons guru's at FN hauled butt to england with thier prototype Assault RIFLE.. and post war they offered it to NATO and the US.. we damn near bought it.. but John Garand got a look at it and the folks at Springfield trotted out a competing rifle... what became the M-14.. arguably the best Battle/Assault Rifle ever issued to an American Soldier. Meanwile, FN continued their development.. and the rest of the free world came to know it as the FAL. Also, arguably, the finest assault RIFLE ever issued in the free world. Both the M-14 and the FAL use the 7.62x51 NATO round... aka, the .308
For 25 years, the three players in the Assault Rifle world were the AK47, the M-14 and The FN/FAL... and there is no doubt in anybodys mind as to which weapons were superior on the battlefield.. The Russians developed the legendary Druganov (7.62x54) to counter the range and punch advantage posed by the M-14 and FAL. Thanks to AF General Curtiss LeMay, politics and contracts the M-14 was replaced by the M-16. NATO was brought to heel eventually.. with most NATO forces downgrading to 5.56 weapons soon after.
It would seem the biggest gripe of the large caliber Assault (full auto) Rifle was control of the weapon in auto mode. At this time, marksmanship skills were a large part of infantry training.. and Full Auto was reserved for appropriate circumstances while accuracy and controlled AIMED fire was empathsized for fire and manuver. This quickly gave way to 'indirect & mass fire' doctrine with the advent of the M-16... using the weapons percieved strengths. percieved, because the damn thing would jam if you looked at it funny... No kidding. Some doofus REMF general decided to use ball powder, which caulked the M-16 real quick. In my day the M-16 was roundly despised, the M-14 was a prized possession, worth any number of cigarettes or bottles of Jack.
*sigh*
Time and again.. as our troops have re-defined the battlefield with new adversarys, the need for the M-14/FAL type Assault RIFLE has reared it's head.. and they find their way to the front as the most trusted, competent and as Savage said " VASTLY SUPERIOR & EXCEPTIONALLY EFFECTIVE" weapons for our troops when compared to the enemy's AK's and their own lil mousegun carbines.
In closing.. yes there will always be a place in the modern force for an assault carbine... it's what we've been using for the last 35 years and the russians have been using for the last 56 years. There is also a pressing need for an Assualt RIFLE.. which is why they keep revisting the 'large caliber' round concept.
I rest my case.
