Wow.... i wish it wasnt true

[Kaw1000]

Originally posted by Mickey1992
My Honda was (96%) made in Marysville, Ohio.

And most of the parts and tires came from japan!!

[tikky]

US engines suck!  just to get more power the US engine makers need like a friggin 12.0 liter engine while the Japanese counterpart just need 1.0 liter to make the same power as tha 12 liter

[Mickey1992]

Originally posted by Kaw1000
And most of the parts and tires came from japan!!

BS.  My '99 Accord is 75% domestic content.  The newer ones are over 95%.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by tikky
US engines suck!  just to get more power the US engine makers need like a friggin 12.0 liter engine while the Japanese counterpart just need 1.0 liter to make the same power as tha 12 liter

Yeah, but our engines can tow a 26 ft boat that weighs 8,000 lbs., your engines can tow a dingy.

[Dos Equis]

In the episode, Homer teaches the Hindis he works with about flex hours and health benefits, so as to drive the cost of those workers up.

In fact, outsourcers will tell you India is already getting too pricey. There are malls in Kashmir that have Starbucks and Talbott's in them. If you were put into one of those malls and all the patrons and workers were removed, you might think you were in a stateside mall.

Jobs have moved on to China and Phillipines, where workers are poorer and have fewer chances to reap the benefits of industrialization.

But don't worry, Google will make money indexing the world and bring that currency stateside. Except for the Falun Gong websites, of course.

[StarOfAfrica2]

Originally posted by Rolex
Nope, not at all. It's a completely free market.

American cars have never done well in Japan. It's not surprising, though.

Imagine you went to a Toyota, Honda, Nissan or Mitsubishi dealer in America and all the cars had the steering wheel on the right, all the controls, gauges and knobs were written in Japanese, the radio didn't cover the same frequency range, and there were just a handful of dealerships with limited service.

You probably wouldn't buy one.

But that has been the historical 'strategy' for US carmakers. Buy it our way, or don't buy it at all. Astounding stupidity, isn't it?

OTOH, Harley Davidson uses the same strategy and does remarkably well in Japan.  

[Maverick]

I love the bit about it's a Walmart mentality. I seem to recall the same type of claims in the 60's and 70's that people were buying cheap foriegn made "crap" that had a made in Japan label long before there was a wallyworld. So yep I can see how it's all walmarts fault.....  

Funny how that cheap "Jap crap" got to be such a large market share and how it was better built and lasted longer than the stuff made in the Good 'ol USA huh. This isn't just cars and stuff, where did the transistor radios come from years ago? They just took what the USA developed and marketed it far better in a far better price. Kinda like a free market thing you know, the basis of capitalism. I loved it when American manufacturers went TO Japan to see how they did it while providing a decent wage and job security to their employees to try and make it happen stateside.

I've said it to others and I'll say it again. I'll spend MY money where I damn well please to make MY life more enjoyable. If an American made product does the job and is cheaper I'll buy it. If it's a foriegn amde product that does the job and is cheaper I buy it instead. I made the money for MY uses not to be dictated by someone else who thinks they know enough to tell me how to live my life.

Until the American made product is competitive, don't expect the market to come buy the stuff. Freedom of choice is also an ideal of capitalism.

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Maverick
I love the bit about it's a Walmart mentality. I seem to recall the same type of claims in the 60's and 70's that people were buying cheap foriegn made "crap" that had a made in Japan label long before there was a wallyworld. So yep I can see how it's all walmarts fault.....  

Funny how that cheap "Jap crap" got to be such a large market share and how it was better built and lasted longer than the stuff made in the Good 'ol USA huh. This isn't just cars and stuff, where did the transistor radios come from years ago? They just took what the USA developed and marketed it far better in a far better price. Kinda like a free market thing you know, the basis of capitalism. I loved it when American manufacturers went TO Japan to see how they did it while providing a decent wage and job security to their employees to try and make it happen stateside.

I've said it to others and I'll say it again. I'll spend MY money where I damn well please to make MY life more enjoyable. If an American made product does the job and is cheaper I'll buy it. If it's a foriegn amde product that does the job and is cheaper I buy it instead. I made the money for MY uses not to be dictated by someone else who thinks they know enough to tell me how to live my life.

Until the American made product is competitive, don't expect the market to come buy the stuff. Freedom of choice is also an ideal of capitalism.

Mav, yah missed a little detail. The detail being that the japanese would price their competing part or product at a price well below the American part.. and gladly sell at a LOSS to drive the American company under... and then, when the playing field was clear, re-adjust the price to make a profit... in all cases at a price higher than the price the american company sold the part for. How? The government of Japan subsidized the companys at war with american companies... and they slapped our goods with insane tarriffs to boot.

"Business is War".

The Chinese are good learners.. and they are engaged in exactly the same practice now... and their prime target is Japan and South Korea. We're already outta the game.

[Maverick]

So Hang, are you saying they learned it from Walmart????

Seems that many of those companies in competition to the Japanese are still here. GM, Chysler, Ford, Harley, to name a few of the main product lines. I'm not sure about the selling at a loss bit given the market share of Japanese products in the US vs Japan domestic consumption. The loss would have been far to heavy to handle on that much of the production run. You have a link for the info you posted?

The demand for tarrif protection from domestic producers was one way to make the US product price competitive. If the Japanese were selling at an actual loss then the tarrif would have killed the market for them. Of course their response to tarrifs was to build plants here in the States and STILL produce better quality at lower prices than the "standard domestic" sleds.

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Maverick
So Hang, are you saying they learned it from Walmart????

Seems that many of those companies in competition to the Japanese are still here. GM, Chysler, Ford, Harley, to name a few of the main product lines. I'm not sure about the selling at a loss bit given the market share of Japanese products in the US vs Japan domestic consumption. The loss would have been far to heavy to handle on that much of the production run. You have a link for the info you posted?

The demand for tarrif protection from domestic producers was one way to make the US product price competitive. If the Japanese were selling at an actual loss then the tarrif would have killed the market for them. Of course their response to tarrifs was to build plants here in the States and STILL produce better quality at lower prices than the "standard domestic" sleds.

It's not just cars Mav.. electronics. And I have first hand experience with how they did it just in my hobby.. they ate Phil Kraft and now Japan Radio and Futaba  own the hobby electronics field. All american Electronics MFG's were literally driven from the playing field by Japan using undercut pricing... how many TV's are made here now? Cameras? Stereo's?

[DiabloTX]

F***in' A Hang, f***in' A!

[nirvana]

American cars are too big for the smaller roads in Asia, so they don't sell as well.  That's what i've been told anyway.

[Rolex]

- Harleys don't have a left/right drive, SoA2.

The Japanese don't sell below cost any more than any company, anywhere, sells below cost, Hang. That's a myth about Japanese companies, just as government subsidizing is a myth.

The government does have a policy of constantly reviewing tax and investment rules to provide Japanese companies with incentives to make a profit and employ people. I see nothing wrong with that.

Japanese executive compensation, corporate investment paper and the stock market made a huge difference in competitve pricing. The stock market is not the same (has a different purpose) than the US, stockholder greed for quarterly profits takes a back seat to long-term reinvestment of profits into research and executives of public corporations don't make 300 times the salary of production workers.

Japanese companies do a lot of cross licensing of patents without the need for royalties. They also have lower legal costs since the tort system and commercial code is not written by lawyers to benefit lawyers. It's there to benefit the producers of jobs and livelihoods.

Capital and lending rates are low.

Japanese factories are remarkably cost efficient and global purchasing of raw materials usually has better terms for larger purchases since they pay faster than US companies and many Japanese manufacturers have more global reach and market than many western companies. Toyota will open 1,000 more dealerships in China in the next few years, GM will open how many?

Tariffs are tariffs and everyone does it. US tariffs are some of the most stringent in the world.

Anyway, I think you're hanging onto some myths there, Hangtime.

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Rolex

The Japanese don't sell below cost any more than any company, anywhere, sells below cost, Hang. That's a myth about Japanese companies, just as government subsidizing is a myth.

Anyway, I think you're hanging onto some myths there, Hangtime.

I beg to differ. I can appreciate your perspective.. but it does not match the facts.

As a kid, I worked a summer for a guy named Phil Kraft. Anybody that's been involved in model building knows who the guy was... and his radio systems dominated the hobby of my youth. Futaba introduced a similar radio.. for less. In Phils words.. "i can't buy the parts for what they are selling this for" and in fact, the very same radio, selling in japan cost 40% MORE than Phils radio. Yes, they introduced them here and sold them at a loss... until Phil folded, Ace folded and Orbit folded.

No American players left.

Price went up. Immediately.

Call it what yah want Rolex.. the same pattern has been repeated here by japanese companys for 50 years.. isolate the competition, undercut his prices; even sell at a loss for YEARS if necessary.. when the competition folds, you own the market and can charge what you want.

I'm well aware that yer loyalties lie not in this country.. and that you would naturally embrace the policies of a national business enviornment that makes little distiction between business and government.. but please; don't try to white wash it. It is what it is.

[Rolex]

Originally posted by Hangtime

I'm well aware that yer loyalties lie not in this country.. and that you would naturally embrace the policies of a national business enviornment that makes little distiction between business and government.. but please; don't try to white wash it. It is what it is.