Our kids killed by their Iraq 'Partners'.

[straffo]

Originally posted by Shuckins
Two of our young men have been killed in violation of all of the rules of civilization and humanity.

Give the politics a rest.

Since when war is not politic ?

[bkbandit]

i just hate that when r guys r captured the terrorist/iraqs will kill and torture them, but when we prison these guys the liberals say we r wrong and that we are killin civilains and useing torture tatics to get info out of prisoners. Im not a violent monster but i believe in letting our guys get the job done by "any" means necessary. I live in nyc i saw on the news that they stoped a plane to attack our subways systems here.  Our guys must be doin somethin right, an attack like that will turn this city upside down. And im im very greetful that r guys r workin everyday to keep us safe.These crazy liberals have to understand that they want to kill us, they need to back the media out of there so our guys can fight the war wit out 50 reports question every shot they fire. If civilains die blame the terrorist, these guys are cowards and use the population to hide, stripin bombs to childern to kill americans? These guys deserve no mercy.

[Sandman]

Ease up on the Koolaid.

[Saintaw]

No need to worry, everything is going just fine...

[Nash]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Looks like the Psy-ops of terrorists has worked on Hang and co. You *do* know the enemy commonly dresses in Iraqi uniforms and infiltrates, don't you Hang?  Or are you one of those that just love bad news from the war in the middle east to justify your dislike for the commander in Chief who was brilliant enough to bring the fight to them, rather than have it here?

More stories of  presumed "Iraqi Soldiers":

Some accounts by police said the rebels were dressed in Iraqi military uniforms.


Insurgents dressed as Iraq police shot and killed six teachers Monday, while violence claimed at least 10 other lives, including three US soldiers

You just can't face facts that its predomeniently INSURGENTS that are killing our boys, NOT Iraqi forces, can you?  The press tells you its the Iraqi's turning on us, we should get out...the press probably would have been happy if we all hid in our closets after 9/11, hope the bad guys go away.  Sorry, won't happen.  Those scum terrorists only understand one thing. Violence on violence. It pisses them off that we're "over there". Thats our mission. Bring them out, fight them on their turf, not US soil. God Bless the men in uniform that understand this and go there to fight them.

My God, look at all that useless text.

You are total piece of work.... know that Rip?

"You just can't face facts that its predomeniently INSURGENTS that are killing our boys, NOT Iraqi forces, can you?"

"Insurgents" ARE Iraqi forces.... Einstein.

Maybe you were trying to talk about the difference between insurgents and the Al qaeda.... but even then it'd still be a huge exaggeration.

It doesn't escape me that you constantly come here equipped with knowing next to nothing, every single time, and rely on snippets of articles... which usually have nothing to do with anything at hand. And you still get it wrong!

You're like that dumb guy in class. He had no idea. He just never learned how to research. And he never learned how to identify and categorize useful information when he was lucky enough to stumble upon it.

And Ripsnort - you don't merely stumble upon it. You land flat on your bellybutton tripping over it, oblivious to it.... while looking off in a different direction... getting up and pocketing the shiny object you were fixated on during the way down.

"You just can't face facts that its predomeniently INSURGENTS that are killing our boys, NOT Iraqi forces, can you? - Ripsnort"

[Nash]

By the way...

It also doesn't escape me that you use the loving term "Our boys" when talking about this.

If you really, really gave a toss about "our boys" you would actually know what exactly they are up against over there.

It's obvious that you don't. And I really don't think you care.

God Bless the men in uniform that understand this and go there to fight them.

You have no idea who "them" are.

[Saintaw]

I think this is what Hang was talking about, in print (IHT)

[Kermit de frog]

Wow, over 2000 soldiers have died correct?

That really is a low number.

Around half a million died during the American Civial War.

I think Millions died during World War II.

How many people died in the first 3 hours of D-Day?

2,000 people compared to recent wars is a very small number.  I think we have done a great job of reducing fatalities in war.  But no matter how hard we try, I believe there will always be death in war.

(It just really sucks to be one of those 2k men that died)

I am glad Saddam is no longer in power.  He is a very bad man and should be punished for the horrible things he had done to his own people.

[Ripsnort]

Nash the insurgents are both external and ex-Baathist's/radical muslims who are fighting US Soldiers. They are not the established Iraqi Army or police. Since I know that you have a short attention span, I've made bold the highlites from more than one news source below (so you don't attack the news source messenger )

An insurgency is an armed uprising, revolt, or insurrection against an established civil or political authority, such as a constituted government or a military occupation by an invading force. Persons engaging in insurgency are called insurgents, and typically engage in regular or guerrilla combat against the armed forces of the established regime, or conduct sabotage and harassment in the land.

Iraqi insurgency -- the armed campaign being waged by various irregular forces, both Iraqi and external in origin, against the multinational force and the new Iraqi government

first you need a sense of how a growing array of soldiers and security men from Saddam's devastated military, members of his old Baathist regime, rebellious desert tribesmen, fierce nationalists, common thugs and a relatively few itinerant fanatics from around the Muslim world have come together to challenge American power and all it stands for in Iraq. Interviews with guerrilla veterans of the Iraqi war, tribal leaders and Baathists, as well as American, Coalition and Iraqi officials, make it clear this is not one insurgency, but many. What Zarqawi and al-Kurdi have brought to the fight is not numbers but a particular talent for horror, for videotaped beheadings and for delivering suicide bombs.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6885867/site/newsweek/

Below is a list of some of the main insurgent groups.

The Shia Badr Brigade and the Kurdish peshmerga are not included, as these are militia groups that do not have a record of attacking US targets or their Iraqi government allies.

AL-QAEDA IN IRAQ
Al-Qaeda is Iraq's most successful insurgent group, blamed for many of the country's bloodiest bombings and beheadings.

The group's prominence is partly down to a media campaign that exploits the exposure - and the anonymity - offered by internet and television channels.

The group's local commander is said to be the Jordanian militant, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

 
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi is the most wanted man in Iraq
The US military regards him as its biggest foe in Iraq, though many analysts question whether he alone is directing all the violence attributed to him.

As commander of a jihadi training camp in Afghanistan in 2001, Zarqawi is said to have regarded himself as a rival to al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden.

He made his debut in Iraq as the alleged head of the Tawhid and Jihad group, claiming credit for the beheading of foreign hostages.

In late 2004, Zarqawi reportedly merged his network with Osama Bin Laden's, renaming it al-Qaeda in Iraq.

Al-Qaeda in Iraq's hallmarks include synchronised bomb attacks and the abduction and murder of foreign hostages.

The bombs have had a range of targets - from US military personnel to Iraq's fledgling security forces and its Shia community - derided as apostates in messages attributed to Zarqawi.

Igniting sectarian conflict is central to al-Qaeda's strategy in Iraq, according to a letter purportedly authored by Zarqawi and released by the US military in early 2004.

Hostages said to have been murdered by the group include the US citizen Nick Berg and the British contractor, Kenneth Bigley.

US and Iraqi government sources say al-Qaeda has recruited foreign fighters for its operations in Iraq.

A September 2005 report released by US think-tank, the Centre for Strategic and International Studies, said foreign volunteers account at most for 10% - some 3,000 fighters - of the insurgency, the remainder being Iraqi Sunni Arabs.

According to the report, most of the foreign insurgents have come from Algeria, Syria, Yemen and Sudan.

Saudis form an influential minority in the foreign contingent because of the money they bring and because of the media coverage their deaths generate, the report says.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4268904.stm

Originally posted by Nash

You're like that dumb guy in class. He had no idea. He just never learned how to research. And he never learned how to identify and categorize useful information when he was lucky enough to stumble upon it.

And Ripsnort - you don't merely stumble upon it. You land flat on your bellybutton tripping over it, oblivious to it.... while looking off in a different direction... getting up and pocketing the shiny object you were fixated on during the way down.
 

Nash, you're like that kid  in class who was most likely skipping school to smoke dope. Barely got by, might have graduated but probably went the GED route along with harder drugs to the point that they control ones life.  Guess we all stereotype, eh Nash?

[lazs2]

Gee nash... what special insights do you as a socilaist canadian have about what American boys are facing over there?

upwzxcv... Yes... the terrorists are a lot more brave against U.S. troops than they were against the sadman... for one thing...  the sadman was just like em... common interests...for another..

U.S. troops won't torture everyone in the villiage one at a time until they find the "insurgents" and then throw them and their families into the woodchipper feet first.  

I kinda doubt that the Iraqis would rather have the sadman back.

lazs

[Hangtime]

Yep.. I got my 'reporting' wrong. Was watching CNN last night, they broke into a canned story to report that two of our soldiers reported killed in an ambush were instead killed by their iraqi patrol 'partners'.. a seperate incident from the more recent capture of the kids in the news over the past couple of days.

My apologies.

Regarding the 'numbers'.. During WWII the average number of days for an american soldier exposed to direct fire was 41 per year. In Vietnam that number went to 240 per year. In Iraq it's expected to be higher. And these kids keep going back.

During WWII the troops in the field enjoyed the support of a unified nation with it's shoulder bent to the concept of WINNING. Every citizen was asked to sacrafice.. children and schools raised funds, sponsored the purchase of warplanes, ships, tanks...

Our kids don't get that support.

Our citizens have lost the will to fight.

Our kids in uniform haven't.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. If we as a nation continue to see our days as just another at the office and refuse to accept the moral commitment of Total War against Islamic Jihadi's... then we are not worthy of the sacrafice of the lives of our kids in battle against them.

Bring them home... or send them everything we have. Commit.. or get 'em outta there. Sending them out to cruise as targets or bait is not a warplan.

[101ABN]

bottom line, the bad guys are sneaking into the ranks of the new iraqi army.. how else would you learn good tactics.. there are american gangs who groom members to join the military so when they get out they can share the good warfighting knowledge with their counterparts.  its old news.  i trained Iraqis in Mosul back in 03-04.. there is a good screening process in place trying to weed out the suspected types before they ever leave the VEO (iraqi recruiting station).  keep in mind that the average yearly income for a worker in Mosul before the war made on average 300 dollars.. if you made that much and some terd came up to you and asked you to plant a bomb for 500 dollars would you?  how about taking a pot shot at a soldier for 500 dollars.. yep, you would... that is the common tactic they are using to get people to help.. their army doesnt pay all that much.. my basic private was making 100 dollars a month.. officers at the rank of captain was making 300 dollars a month.. imagine a quick 500 dollars to release a patrol route, convoy route and times..... as for the 2 soldiers that were snatched from the checkpoint.. they were not hit by Iraqis that they were with.. these soldiers were in my brigade.. pray for their families.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Hangtime

Bring them home... or send them everything we have. Commit.. or get 'em outta there. Sending them out to cruise as targets or bait is not a warplan.

They are sending them out on patrol with Iraqi security forces training the Iraqi security forces to deal with the insurgency.  I'm sure the insurgents can funnel as many recruits into Iraqi as they want just as we could continue to funnel as many troops as we want to fight them, but we must teach the standing government forces how to walk before we can run.

Meanwhile, we are situated right on top of this big piece of intelligence gathering piece of real estate called Iraq. Big brother is watching them. It's pissing the radical muslims off, and that's good. They come to us there, not here on our soil. Kill them all let (insert deity here) sort them out.

[lazs2]

If you read the SOG books about vietnam you will see a few (more than a few) examples of the indiginous troops betraying our troops... sometimes is was just the reward.... other times it was the threat to their families.  A person who's family is threatened by monsters could be expected to take his chances with U.S. justice.

lazs

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Nash
By the way...

It also doesn't escape me that you use the loving term "Our boys" when talking about this.

If you really, really gave a toss about "our boys" you would actually know what exactly they are up against over there.

It's obvious that you don't. And I really don't think you care.



You have no idea who "them" are.

Nash, my Nephew serves in the U.S. Army Intelligence division.  You want a picture?