solution

[Holden McGroin]

All Hamas needs to do is make a statement saying they renounce terrorism and recognise Israel and it would be a huge step toward peace.  Like Sadat going to Jerusalem, it would be largely symbolic and not substantive.  

A good faith effort by Hamas to control the fringe groups would be accepted with worldwide acclaim, and I think most would agree that some violence would continue... but at least it would not be government sanctioned.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by parker00
I haven't defended any method the palestinians are using but you all seem to think that Israel has the right to do what it wants and I'm saying they are both the problem. I don't believe either side wants peace and neither side has made an honest attempt at it.

again maybe you were hybernating during this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%27s_unilateral_disengagement_plan but it seems as honest attempt as any.  The decision was extremly unpopular with the populace as well.  

The palistinains saw this as a victory and continued to lobb rockets at civilian targets and then proceded to trash the evacuated settlements.

[parker00]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
again maybe you were hybernating during this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%27s_unilateral_disengagement_plan but it seems as honest attempt as any.  The decision was extremly unpopular with the populace as well.  

The palistinains saw this as a victory and continued to lobb rockets at civilian targets and then proceded to trash the evacuated settlements.

Do you like to repeat yourself for no reason what so ever? I didn't agree with you above so why would I care if you repost the same thing? IF Israel wanted peace they would agree to give back all the land they stole, go back to 1967 borders and then I will agree that they made an effort. Gunslinger no need to post the same message, I understand you only see what you want to. Add something new and I will be more than happy to reply.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by parker00
IF Israel wanted peace they would agree to give back all the land they stole, go back to 1967 borders and then I will agree that they made an effort.

If they went back to the 1967 borders, Jordan, Egypt and Syria would get back their land, and the Palestinians would still be homeless.

Isreal cannot unilaterally give all the occupied since 1967 land to the Palestinians without the Palestinians supporting the existance of Israel.

If they do they lose their bargaining chip, and get nothing in return.

If Hamas makes an effort to stop the terror and accepts Israel as a neighbor, then a bargain can be struck and the win - win situation is set up.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by parker00
Do you like to repeat yourself for no reason what so ever? I didn't agree with you above so why would I care if you repost the same thing? IF Israel wanted peace they would agree to give back all the land they stole, go back to 1967 borders and then I will agree that they made an effort. Gunslinger no need to post the same message, I understand you only see what you want to. Add something new and I will be more than happy to reply.

You keep saying that no honest attempt has been made and I'm pointing out where it has only to blow up in their faces.  Israel has supported the right for a free palistinian state for years now yet the pals. seem only hell bent on destroying israel.  If they actually cared they'd elect a govt that cared for it's people more than it's cause.  

I'm not forgiving israel for any wrong doings of the past but tell me when in the last five or so years have they intentionally targeted civilians?  

Can you say the same for the pals?

[~Caligula~]

Originally posted by parker00
IF Israel wanted peace they would agree to give back all the land they stole, go back to 1967 borders and then I will agree that they made an effort.

Do You really belive that is what the Hamas wants, and they would stop killing israelis and disrupt our lives?



just look at the map drawn on that poster...does that look like the 1967 borders? It`s a pic taken before the palestinian elections.

[Brenjen]

IF Israel wanted peace they would agree to give back all the land they stole

 It wasn't "stolen" it was WON after ISRAEL was invaded & fired on first, sneak attacked even. The palestinians are the ones who break the cease fires they are the ones who murder children laying in cribs with automatic rifles & grenades. It's the palestinian people who elected a terrorist gang as their leadership!

 It's 90% the palestinians fault they are in the Israeli weapon sights & 10% the U.N. for setting up an Israeli state to begin with. The Israelis are in a no win situation, no matter what they do they are viewed as bullying a weak ghetto people, they are justified in wiping the palestinians out imo, but they are kinder people than me. I would push every last palestinian man woman & child into the sea, especially if one of my children or even one of my countrymen were killed by those animalistic thugs.
 
 Oh, lasersailor, I don't hold much respect for the french govt. but they could kick the stuffing out of Israel & that's without using their I.C.B.M.'s The French soldier is as tough, hard nosed, proud & well equipped as any other in the world. They are one of; if not the weakest global power, but they are a global power & Israel is not.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Brenjen
It wasn't "stolen" it was WON after ISRAEL was invaded & fired on first, sneak attacked even.

It was won in 1967 after Israel attacked first, although terror attacks led up to the preemptive military attack (by Israel) of the six day war.  

Source

[Brenjen]

What you are calling terror attacks; I call being fired on first. If the palestinians wanted peace, they could have voted in a more moderate governing body at that crucial step in the peace process & they could police their people, arresting the ones creating the problems. If the Israelis saw that sort of effort on the palestinian side along with recognition & a live & let live policy instead of chanting death to Israel & killing every Israeli they can get away with, there would be peace.

 The palestinians are & have always been "terrorists" they have never had a uniformed legitimate military, when yassir arafat withdrew from lebanon, the U.N. with U.S. support (or vice versa) allowed them to leave with their weapons! It is a tangled mess; I think the U.S. should choose a distinct path & follow it. We are as much to blame as the U.N. & Israel & the palestinians for the problem they live with there.

 I just don't like the palestinians, every news clip I see no matter what the source, shows them being tribal gangs like a pack of wild dogs. I'll never forget the video of the daycare with the bloody cribs & little dead bodies covered here & there, or the two Israeli soldiers who were taking refuge at a police station; seeing their dead bodies being dumped out of a second floor window at a PALESTINIAN POLICE STATION while the palestinians were running around outside showing their bloodstained hands to the cameras, screw those filthy animals, they deserve to die if they will not work toward a peaceful resolution.

[Gunslinger]

yes indeed "give back stolen land"

Israel’s operation in Gaza comes less than a year after its unilateral retreat last summer, when more than 8,000 Jews were expelled from the homes and communities some of them had lived in for decades. This, Israelis were told, would mean “disengagement“ from their enemies — the Palestinians would have all of Gaza to themselves and violence would be thwarted by the security fence separating them from Israel. “If this will be done, then everything will be changed,” Ehud Olmert, a key architect of the plan, promised in a speech last June. Israel would be better off without Gaza than it ever was with it. But the surrender of Gaza didn’t appease Hamas and Fatah. Instead, it convinced them that Israelis were weak, that terrorism worked — and that more terrorism would work even better.

So more terrorism followed. “In just the past two weeks,“ I wrote last September, “a Palestinian knifed a Jewish student to death in Jerusalem’s Old City, an Israeli policemen was stabbed in the throat by an Arab in Hebron, Kassam rockets were fired from Gaza into the southern Israeli town of Sderot, a suicide bomber blew himself up in Beersheba’s crowded bus station, a Katyusha missile launched from Lebanon exploded in the Israeli village of Margaliot, a firebomb was thrown at an Israeli vehicle on a highway outside Jerusalem, and a 14-year-old boy from Nablus was caught with three bombs.”

In the months since then, the Palestinian war against Israel has continued without letup. All that changed was the frontline — with the Jewish settlements and soldiers gone, it moved right up to the border, making it easier than ever for attacks to penetrate Israeli territory. The Gaza security fence has been no panacea. Sderot and other towns in southern Israel have been bombarded by hundreds of rockets fired over the fence. The gunmen who abducted Shalit and killed two of his comrades entered Israel by tunneling under the fence.

“We are tired of fighting,” said Olmert last year, making the case for retreating from Gaza. “We are tired of being courageous, we are tired of winning, we are tired of defeating our enemies.”

But Israel will either defeat its enemies or be defeated by them; “disengaging" from them is not an option. In 1976, Israelis understood that in their bones. Thirty years later, do they still?
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/07/02/has_israel_lost_the_spirit_of_76/

[Holden McGroin]

I didn't call them terror attacks, the Jewish Virtual Library did. (check out the link I posted) According to that source, Israel attacked first. (Although the claim they were provoked and had little choice if they wished to survive.)

[Brenjen]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I didn't call them terror attacks, the Jewish Virtual Library did. (check out the link I posted) According to that source, Israel attacked first. (Although the claim they were provoked and had little choice if they wished to survive.)

 I did check out the link you posted, I was refering to your printed words.

although terror attacks led up to the preemptive military attack

 I should have made my printed words more accurate maybe. I'm sure we (people around the world) agree on how people should treat each other more than it seems we do. I just get sick of seeing the apologists making excuses for the wild animals of the world attacking innocent people intentionally, and then they hold up a casualty or two that inadvertantly got in the way when the ones who were attacked first retaliate as proof the killing of innocent people goes both ways. Know what I mean?

[Holden McGroin]

Absolutely.  No way could a civilized human embrace those who think restaurants, schools, and city buses are legitimate military targets, and then talk a 12 year old into sacrifice in order to make the attack.

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by Brenjen
10% the U.N. for setting up an Israeli state to begin with.
 
 Oh, lasersailor, I don't hold much respect for the french govt. but they could kick the stuffing out of Israel & that's without using their I.C.B.M.'s The French soldier is as tough, hard nosed, proud & well equipped as any other in the world. They are one of; if not the weakest global power, but they are a global power & Israel is not. [/B]

4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.

[Thrawn]

France could turn Isreal into a sea of glass...without breaking a sweat.