Author Topic: Palestinian education for kids  (Read 1380 times)

Offline Neubob

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« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2006, 02:22:59 PM »
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Originally posted by Yeager
Heres my idea to solve not only the palistinian problem and the jewish problem, but all God related problems: just go dig a giant pit into the earth (or several depending on geography requirements)...maybe 5000 feet down.  Tell everyone that heaven is down at the bottom and if anyone is in such a hurry that they want to go to heaven RIGHT NOW, to go jump into the hole.  Maybe even make commercials showing little kids falling happily to heaven, if thats the particular twist of any particular God cult :rolleyes:

I honestly think this idea would go along way towards improving life on earth for the rest of us. :cool:


Wow, so simple, yet so practical. I'm all for it.

Instead of letting god sort them out, let them sort themselves out.

I would like to place one bet, though:

The day that the pits are opened for business, the most common words heard echoing around the world will be: 'Allah Akbar'.

Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2006, 05:28:47 PM »
Thanks for the reply Nashwan,

I just feel it is my humble opinion that the palistinians lost any and all attachment to "victom status" when they started blowing up busses and cafes full of civilians.  It's not to say that I think the isralies hands are clean but I just see it more and more the sympothy for the plight of the poor poor palistinian people that elected a terrorist govt.  If a people don't want to help themselves then no one else can help them.  They are beyond help imho.

Offline Neubob

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« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2006, 05:46:08 PM »
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Originally posted by ramzey
at list they like to fight for their nation, not like other let yourself to be sloughter or stand back when their nation is sloughtered


The apparent point of this almost coherent babble could easily be applied to either side of the conflict, hence, there is no point.

All the same, and this applies to some of the other posts, it's great to see people that have never been to Israel, nor ever will be, make quick and easy conclusions based on the news they read, and, more increasingly, on prevailing local opinion--an opinion that favors the Arab perspective more and more with each passing day.

I suspect that when the Arabs have completely overrun Europe, they'll finally be able to convince everyone that they are, in fact, the world's biggest collective victim, with the Jews being their key oppressors.

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2006, 10:06:46 PM »
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suspect that when the Arabs have completely overrun Europe, they'll finally be able to convince everyone that they are, in fact, the world's biggest collective victim, with the Jews being their key oppressors.


I personally suspect that the majority of europeans are anti-semitic, even just at a subconcious level.  This has nothing to do with the arabic invasion of europe.
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Offline Neubob

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« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2006, 10:20:46 PM »
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
I personally suspect that the majority of europeans are anti-semitic, even just at a subconcious level.  This has nothing to do with the arabic invasion of europe.


I'm more than willing to agree with you wholeheartedly. I just think that the growing Arab presence serves to give the sage-like Euros a group to actively side with, whereas before they were anti-semetic simply by virtue of their DNA.

Offline bozon

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« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2006, 02:21:54 AM »
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Do not make the mistake that Israel is fighting a "clean" war. Even the ICT, which is an Israeli propaganda mouthpiece, admits that far more Palestinian civilians (and they count rioters and stone throwers as combatants) have been killed by Israelis than vice versa.

Comparing number of casualties is irrelevant. More palestinians die than Israelies for the simple fact that the Israelies are better trained and better equiped. If anything, the fact that the numbers are not totaly one sided 1:100 even when comparing only "civilians" means that this is a bloody war. You do not expect someone attacked with a knife to put away his rifle and make it a "fair" fight.

Europians think the Israeli army is fighting over some colony over the ocean like they all did in their past. This "colony" may be a few kilometers from they soldiers home that is being hit by palestinian rockets.

I'm sorry, but I ceased to believe in any cosmic morality or justice being anything more than very rough guidelines. Both side fight dirty, that's the nature of reality, I do not expect otherwise.

What I do measure the palestinians by are the results. So far, the only thing they achieve is SENSELESS violence. The lack of clear purpose and objectives is what bothers me, not the methods they use. Do they even know what they want, that is realistic? No one in Israel has any idea what practical demands will satisfy them, only speculations. People will not "try and see" when their lives are at stake.

Their situation now is far worse than in 1995. Not that the Israeli goverment is the brightest, but the Israelies have been in a not very different situation 60 years ago and also fought dirty like some people love to mention. The difference was that Israeli leaders managed to make the right decisions in the critical moments that achieved at least their high priority goals, without sacrificing the population. Minor organizations were put on a leash, some compromises were made and still nothing came by right or by the kindness of the world. The UN may have voted for a Jewish state, but they still had to fight it out - wisely! in order to come out with something. Not shooting in all directions.

The palestinians kick, screem and blame Israel but do little to help themselves. I'm an Israeli but I support palestinian cause. Still, they keep banging their heads against the walls till they faint every time they are not pleased with something. No plan, no purpose, no organization. I'm also pretty sure that they will not ask of my opinions before they blow up the bus I'm on. They still haven't figured out that it is the Israeli voters that they need to convince, not the world.

They have some very talented individuals, but they are pathetic as a nation and that is frustrating.
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Offline Wolfala

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« Reply #36 on: July 05, 2006, 02:28:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by bozon
Comparing number of casualties is irrelevant. More palestinians die than Israelies for the simple fact that the Israelies are better trained and better equiped. If anything, the fact that the numbers are not totaly one sided 1:100 even when comparing only "civilians" means that this is a bloody war. You do not expect someone attacked with a knife to put away his rifle and make it a "fair" fight.

Europians think the Israeli army is fighting over some colony over the ocean like they all did in their past. This "colony" may be a few kilometers from they soldiers home that is being hit by palestinian rockets.

I'm sorry, but I ceased to believe in any cosmic morality or justice being anything more than very rough guidelines. Both side fight dirty, that's the nature of reality, I do not expect otherwise.

What I do measure the palestinians by are the results. So far, the only thing they achieve is SENSELESS violence. The lack of clear purpose and objectives is what bothers me, not the methods they use. Do they even know what they want, that is realistic? No one in Israel has any idea what practical demands will satisfy them, only speculations. People will not "try and see" when their lives are at stake.

Their situation now is far worse than in 1995. Not that the Israeli goverment is the brightest, but the Israelies have been in a not very different situation 60 years ago and also fought dirty like some people love to mention. The difference was that Israeli leaders managed to make the right decisions in the critical moments that achieved at least their high priority goals, without sacrificing the population. Minor organizations were put on a leash, some compromises were made and still nothing came by right or by the kindness of the world. The UN may have voted for a Jewish state, but they still had to fight it out - wisely! in order to come out with something. Not shooting in all directions.

The palestinians kick, screem and blame Israel but do little to help themselves. I'm an Israeli but I support palestinian cause. Still, they keep banging their heads against the walls till they faint every time they are not pleased with something. No plan, no purpose, no organization. I'm also pretty sure that they will not ask of my opinions before they blow up the bus I'm on. They still haven't figured out that it is the Israeli voters that they need to convince, not the world.

They have some very talented individuals, but they are pathetic as a nation and that is frustrating.


Damn good post.

S!


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Offline Momus--

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« Reply #37 on: July 05, 2006, 03:31:10 AM »
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
I personally suspect that the majority of europeans are anti-semitic, even just at a subconcious level.  This has nothing to do with the arabic invasion of europe.


Nice attempt at a derail/troll. Scores 0/10, try harder next time.

Offline Saintaw

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« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2006, 04:07:19 AM »
Momus, shush... you should be in awe, those two are EXPERTS on Yurop and Yuropean matters, they know it because they saw it on TV, IT's ALL TRUE!!!

"Zemmel" is what describes them best.
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Offline Birddogg

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« Reply #39 on: July 05, 2006, 05:32:13 AM »
Israelis are no better. Both sides feed radicals There are no good/bad guys there.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2006, 05:40:15 AM by Birddogg »

Offline Neubob

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« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2006, 10:52:15 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Saintaw
Momus, shush... you should be in awe, those two are EXPERTS on Yurop and Yuropean matters, they know it because they saw it on TV, IT's ALL TRUE!!!

"Zemmel" is what describes them best.


I've spent enough time in Europe, and have known enough Europeans that I don't have to watch TV to feel like I have some insight into their attitudes. Although all of Europe can hardly be lumped into a sigle population, I'd like to see you argue that the French and the Germans, at the very least, aren't Anti-semetic at their core.

As for TV, I think that if anything, that which you just accused me of is something most of the enlightened Europeans here do in regards to the US and Israel every day.

Since I've never met you, I don't know what word describes you best.

Offline lukster

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« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2006, 11:49:34 AM »
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Originally posted by Momus--
Meanwhile, Israeli Textbooks and Children’s Literature Promote Racism and Hatred Toward Palestinians and Arabs.


Israeli school textbooks as well as children’s storybooks, according to recent academic studies and surveys, portray Palestinians and Arabs as “murderers,” “rioters,” “suspicious,” and generally backward and unproductive.

It's not difficult to understand why they would believe this based on the many assaults they have suffered over the decades. Furthermore, the op link does very little to disuade this sort of thinking. I think Iran joined the "backward" nations when their leader recently declared they have no right to exist.

Offline Neubob

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« Reply #42 on: July 05, 2006, 12:37:21 PM »
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Murderers, rioters, suspicious, and generally backward and unproductive.


Ok, here's an experiment, let's try to state the opposite, and see if it sounds right:

Arabs and Palestinians are peace-loving, society-respecting, honest, generally advanced and productive.



Sure, the Israelis may not be be the most cuddly people out there, but perhaps that should be attributed to their geography, more than their nature. Being surrounded by hostile nations, and outnumbered 10 to 1, tends to divide people into two distinct categories--aggressive, and dead. And even so, at the very least, nobody can reasonably claim that the Israelis aren't generally advanced and productive.

What's the Arabs' excuse?

Offline hacksaw1

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« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2006, 12:39:18 PM »
Well Nashwan, not too surprised to see that you haven't changed your mind about Israel's "illegal" occupation of non-sovereign territories captured in war.

Quick question: What, pray tell, are you Tommies doing in Basra? Did you have missiles falling on Cardiff like we do on S'derot and Ashkelon? No, you say?!?

I would have imagined that three years ago or so you would have lowered your flag of Wales to half-mast to identify with the Iraqi Shi'ites you've occupied, who were/are the citizens of a sovereign nation. Or, perhaps you have a different opinion about the UK and Basra? Hummm, what's that saying, "He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone."

By the way, I read the article from Ha'aretz that you cite to compare the indoctrination to Shahada encouraged by the PA to what's going on in Israel. Tsk, Tsk, mate, not a very convincing article for your cause. Two Israeli kindergartens were found, by surprised parents, and without sanction of the Tel Aviv municipality, to have encouraged marching, saluting, playing with toy swords, etc. Hardly the PA's inculcating the love of death by martyrdom indicated by the articles cited above by PMW. Moreover, if Ha'aretz quoted Israelis who said, as you say, "kill as many Arabs as possible.", "For me, kill at least 10" and "Ignore the laws and spray them" then Ha'aretz did it precisely to warn the vast majority of Israel about the dangers of the radical right. Mate it seems to me that you pull fringe comments to compare with what the PA itself sponsors in the media.

This morning on the way to work I heard a radio interview on the popular show of Gabi Gazit with one of Israel's Arab Knesset members and an Israeli Jewish member debating the pros and cons of the bill that would outlaw open support or contact by Israeli parliamentarians with known terrorist organizations (Hamas). How 'bout that, open debate in Israel about contacts with terrorists. And up till now the Arab Knesset members can contact Hamas with impunity.

One other thing. BeTzelem that you reference is a Hebrew word for "In the Image (of God)" and comes from the book of Genesis. Israeli Jews and Arabs and others make up the organization with this name and focus their work on the territories. Imagine that, an organization in Israel that is extremely critical of many aspects of Israel's government policy. Wonder if Mubarrak, or Abdullah, or Assad, or the Saudies, or the Iranians, or even the PA, would ever let their citizens form a watchdog organization that levels severe criticism against their respective regimes, maybe, for example, with respect to their treatment of indigenous minority Christian and Jewish populations.

I would nevertheless agree with your comment,

"The whole situation is a lot more complex than Israel = good, Palestinians = bad. Whilst that sort of attitude prevails, peace isn't very likely."

But I would add, that when someone on the left like Shimon Peres who has gone the extra ten miles for the sake of the Palestinians can say, "The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity," then perhaps there are not a whole lot of options available to Israel, especially when Hamas refuses to acknowledge the very existence of Israel.

Best regards mate.

Cement

P.S.
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http://www.washington-report.org/charorganizations/index.htm

Offline DoctorYO

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« Reply #44 on: July 05, 2006, 02:10:59 PM »
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I just feel it is my humble opinion that the palistinians lost any and all attachment to "victom status" when they started blowing up busses and cafes full of civilians.



As long as you have tactics like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_beach_massacre   **

your going to have the pure desperation of a childrens crusade:  strapping bombs in some cowardly indiscriminate attack when you enemy does you the same....**

(Note this tactic currently ended the Hamas 16 month ceasefire, groundbreaking for Hamas I might add... leading to the soldier kidnapping, leading to the cluster going on in Gaza.. The "Powerstation attack".. was a war crime violation as per international law.....Even neutral Switzerland is like wtf on the international docket..)

Palistine coward tactics are not much unlike the the shelling of a beach with 155's with no video spotter proving the hostilities of a family of 8...(and losing 4th gen I might add on a world level..)

Gun, its real simple...  have 3 continents forming to one and your going to have conflict..  I got over 4500  hundred years of recorded history backing that.. Romans, Assyrians, Phonecians, Hittites, Ottomons list goes on and on..(modern British etc..) everybody wants a piece, everybody fails..

These people hate eachother, been hating eachother since the time of Canaan, and will continue to hate eachother..  I have no problem with that.. thats human nature..  My only gripe is the cowardly tactics used by both sides and then all of the bellyaching back and forth of who's taking the high ground over who's attack was more heinous...

Both sides are equally cowardly...  There is no high ground...




DoctorYo
« Last Edit: July 05, 2006, 02:14:08 PM by DoctorYO »