P38

[Yoshimbo]

before i start flying them i need to know...

1.) major differences between the J and the L, BESIDES the fact that the L has the dive brakes and different ordanence, I'm talkin Performance differences

2.)Stratagies, tactics, and maneuvers

3.) dos & don'ts

I have always loved the P38J, ever since i first saw a picture of one when i was twelve I fell in love with the plane. Speed, concentrated firepower, the secureity of 2 engines, and the ability to approach mach1 in a dive. (although u risk tearing the tail off) I love the p38, although strangely enough, I have yet to really sit down and fly the beauty, perhaps i'm little intimidated by this legendary bird, or maybe i just feel a little unworthy. Whatever the case i would really like to learn to fly this plane.

woe to my foes

[Geeb 2]

this link might help if it shows uphttp://members.shaw.ca/soda_p/models.htm

[Krusty]

soda has some points I don't entirely agree on, on several different aircraft. As such I don't rely on his webpage.

The best thing I can suggest is that you try them both. The L and the J are similar in speed. The top speeds are almost identical up to 15-20k, inside AH. However the J is a bit faster at fth. I think the L has better roll rate, and perhaps a few more horsepower, so it probably climbs better.

Try them and see if you can tell they're different. If you can't, then it doesn't matter which you take

[Schatzi]

Yoshimbo, id suggest you hunt down the 38 jocks like 475th, 479th and 80th and fly with them. They are (almost ) all good guys and willing to share their knowledge, experience and their enthusiasm for the 38s.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Yoshimbo
...and the ability to approach mach1 in a dive. (although u risk tearing the tail off)  

The P-38 will not[/i] approach or break the sound barrier in a dive.  


ack-ack

[Guppy35]

I've flown mainly the G cause I love the look of the early 38s

G is probably the best down in the weeds knife fighter of the three.

I've been flying the L a bit lately just so I can keep up with the rest of the guys.  I'm always dragging behind in the slower G.

The roll rate is nice in that one.  Some of the guys I fly with, Delirium in particular, swear by the J while others like Raptor and Silat are L drivers.

How much fun you have depends on you I guess.  I don't mind dying as I'm very good at it, so more then likely I'll be low and slow in a 38G.  The best of the stay alive 38 drivers tend to keep the speed up and BnZ more often using the concentrated firepower in the nose to rip up the targets.

It's a fun bird to fly

[Murdr]

Our P-38L-5-LO has boosted aelirons, and dive recovery flaps.
Our P-38J-10-LO has neither.

P-38J and P-38L have nearly identical performance.  Both are rated in the game for the same horsepower, but the L is slightly heavier.  This should give a slight edge to the J in acceleration, and in  sustained turns.  However the difference is so small it should be all but inperceptable to any but the hard core 38 pilots.  

The L with its boosted controls has an exceptional roll rate at higher speeds.  Its rocket mounting configuration is the best of the three, and is least affected by aero and drag issues once the rocket load is all salvoed.

Know your ACM.  A mistake in ACM choice in the 38 will be much more costly than it would be in a more nimble plane such as a spitfire or n1k.  When I fill requests for P-38 training, I find that most actually need ACM training.  The reason being is that they have been making those same mistakes in the more nimble fighters, but are able to recover from them out of sheer turn performance.  

Use the vertical as much as possible.  There are planes that the 38 cannot compete with in sustained flat turns, but when you add a vertical component to the turns, the match-up is much closer.  Take advantage of the 38's zero net torque.  The 38 can zoom down to 0 mph, while other fighters are fighting torque for control of their nose.  Make the other plane turn aginst his torque when possible.

Feel free to check out the 479th Library with over 40 films, 95% of which are P-38.

[bkbandit]

yea i find myself doin things that soda say are impossible to do.

[ded]

Originally posted by bkbandit
yea i find myself doin things that soda say are impossible to do.

like turnfighting in an f4u-1d

[Vudak]

Originally posted by bkbandit
yea i find myself doin things that soda say are impossible to do.

Soda doesn't say anything is impossible.  His site is designed (it seems) for the new guy coming up who wants to know this and that about the plane and get going with a chance of success.

The advice found on his site is sound if you want to get home each sortie.  It stresses the basic strengths and weaknesses of each plane.  Very good things to know.  

Obviously, once you improve you can push the limit more/find out exactly where it is.  Equally obvious is that should Soda tell a new guy to turnfight a Spitfire in his Corsair, the new guy's going to have some major problems.  It doesn't mean a Corsair can't take on a Spit in a turnfight, but the average person who's just starting to take in the wealth of knowledge on the internet is not going to have a fun time trying it two or three weeks in.

Sometimes I do get the feeling that many people take the advice on netaces and Soda's a/c page as set in stone, unbreakable rules.  Hence the continued "timidity" of many (older) pilots in the MA.  However, everyone has to start somewhere, and, once again, turnfighting spits in a corsair is not the right place to do that.

What I'd really like to see would be a beginner, intermediate, and advanced write up for each plane.  But then again someone has to write all that, and I'm sure as heck not qualified.

[SirLoin]

I've been checking out Soda's site these last few days...i find the write ups excellant and very informative(& helpfull...even for a "vet")..

[Yoshimbo]

The P-38 will not approach or break the sound barrier in a dive.

ack ack

ahem...

-When earlier J-series Lightnings went into a high speed dive, their controls would suddenly lock up when a certain speed was reached and the nose would begin to tuck under, making recovery from the dive very difficult. The problem would begin at Mach 0.65 to 0.68, accompanied by vigorous buffeting and a strong nose-down pitch...At Mach 0.72, dive recovery became for all practical purposes impossible,

-Late production P-38Js also finally ameliorated the compressibility problem through the introduction of minor aerodynamic changes, particularly the addition of a set of small dive flaps just outboard of the engines on the bottom centerline of the wings. With these improvements, a USAAF pilot reported a dive speed of almost 970 km/h (600 mph) and recovered in one piece.

-They tested a scale model P-38 in the Ames Laboratory wind tunnel operated by the NACA (National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics) and found that shock waves formed when airflow over the wing reached transonic speeds and became turbulent.


sources:
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p38_13.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P38

http://www.aviation-history.com/lockheed/p38.html

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Yoshimbo
ahem...

-When earlier J-series Lightnings went into a high speed dive, their controls would suddenly lock up when a certain speed was reached and the nose would begin to tuck under, making recovery from the dive very difficult. The problem would begin at Mach 0.65 to 0.68, accompanied by vigorous buffeting and a strong nose-down pitch...At Mach 0.72, dive recovery became for all practical purposes impossible,

-Late production P-38Js also finally ameliorated the compressibility problem through the introduction of minor aerodynamic changes, particularly the addition of a set of small dive flaps just outboard of the engines on the bottom centerline of the wings. With these improvements, a USAAF pilot reported a dive speed of almost 970 km/h (600 mph) and recovered in one piece.

-They tested a scale model P-38 in the Ames Laboratory wind tunnel operated by the NACA (National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics) and found that shock waves formed when airflow over the wing reached transonic speeds and became turbulent.


sources:
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p38_13.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P38

http://www.aviation-history.com/lockheed/p38.html

Ahem...what you are describing are the effects of compressability.  The airflow[/b] over the leading edge reaches critical mach but not the plane itself.  That's why the dive flaps were added to the P-38L to change the airflow over the wing.

ack-ack

[Yoshimbo]

I see what your sayin, I must of missunderstood some of the stories and things I've heard, i always took it as the actual plane itself as approaching mach 1.

say, from how high do you think I would have to dive to really get the whole actual plane to really approach mach1? provided the tail stays intact.

[Kermit de frog]

Originally posted by Yoshimbo
I see what your sayin, I must of missunderstood some of the stories and things I've heard, i always took it as the actual plane itself as approaching mach 1.

say, from how high do you think I would have to dive to really get the whole actual plane to really approach mach1? provided the tail stays intact.

This is a great question for ACK-ACK