The last stem, err, I mean straw

[lasersailor184]

I just think that it's immoral to deny medical developement because of 'human spare parts' that will not be used otherwise.

No.  This gives validity to an immoral action.  

"No Sharon, there's nothing wrong with abortions.  Plus the cells will get used for research!"

[Gunslinger]

I think some are playing too much politics in this.  This veto didn't stop any research what so ever.  All it did was make certain kinds of stem cell research ineligable for federal funding.

[Fishu]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
No.  This gives validity to an immoral action.  

"No Sharon, there's nothing wrong with abortions.  Plus the cells will get used for research!"

An immoral action... theres an immoral war going on with thousands of deaths every year! War based on immoral lies and motives!

Some stem cell research doesn't bother me much and it will be done in the future, in the US too. No reason to stubbornly stand in the way of a progress which is going to be reality sooner or later anyway. Stem cell research can save the lives of LIVING people.

[lasersailor184]

Yes, it can save thousands of lives every year.  But should it be done at the cost of millions more?

[Furious]

Originally posted by Eagler
if this ever passes, abortion clinics will be like sperm banks where one will be paid for their deposit ...

no.

from H. R. 810

(b) ETHICAL REQUIREMENTS.--Human embryonic stem cells
shall be eligible for use in any research conducted or supported
by the Secretary if the cells meet each of the following:
       ``(1) The stem cells were derived from human embryos
that have been donated from in vitro fertilization clinics, were
created for the purposes of fertility treatment, and were in
excess of the clinical need of the individuals seeking such
 treatment.
        ``(2) Prior to the consideration of embryo donation and
through consultation with the individuals seeking fertility treat-
ment, it was determined that the embryos would never be
implanted in a woman and would otherwise be discarded.
          ``(3) The individuals seeking fertility treatment donated
the embryos with written informed consent and without
receiving any financial or other inducements to make the donation.
...

[Debonair]

Originally posted by Me
if something can help me live a lot longer, or make me a lot of $$$, then it is not immoral.

[-dead-]

I've never really understood the problem with this: as I understand it - if they don't do stem cell research, they just dump the embryos - the embryos "die" either way. If they do the stem cell research maybe people get cured.

[Nilsen]

Originally posted by Yeager
I think parents should be able to lawfully kill their own children up to the age of 18.

hmm.. an 18,9 year window for abortion.. i like it

I would run over to my neighbour with a bottle of cognac and beg them to abort their boy before its too late.. He is a really annoying kid. Yesterday he held a Rock & RapRoll "festival" with his should-have-been aborted friends.

[Fishu]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
Yes, it can save thousands of lives every year.  But should it be done at the cost of millions more?

Those "millions" are going to die anyway, after dumping the embryos. I'd rather have those used to improve others lives than simply thrown away. Same end result, except the other option has an advantage.

[ghi]

Originally posted by Fishu
An immoral action... theres an immoral war going on with thousands of deaths every year! War based on immoral lies and motives!

Some stem cell research doesn't bother me much and it will be done in the future, in the US too. No reason to stubbornly stand in the way of a progress which is going to be reality sooner or later anyway. Stem cell research can save the lives of LIVING people.

   i agree, It's just an old,dusted ideology puked over the centuries from the dark ages of catholic inquisition  and accepted as a  priciple in a modern society: stop the progress in the name of a misunderstood religious concept,

[lazs2]

I think it is a non issue... I don't really care about stem cells all that much.

While they are alive I don't really consider them people with rights per se..

But.....  If it is a moral problem for some or most... then why should they pay for it through their taxes?

You have no right to stem cell research... you have no right to make me pay to do any research.  

There is no ban on the research... just a restriction on how much is paid out by our taxes... I have no problem with that given that it is repugnant to some who feel (with some justification) that human embreyos will be grown to feed the need for research.  

There is no ban at all on private research.... Some states are funding it themselves.   Many companies are.   If it is that promising then private companies will step up the research.

It is like the endowment for the arts...  The federal government does not keep art afloat.   There is art without government.... government just mucks it all up and scews it.

Government artificialy props up things (with our money) that should not survive on their own merit.  

Many of you are asking government to decide what research and development is worth doing.  

Government meddling in solar panels (rebates) for instance has destroyed real development in the field.   Why improve when the government will pay the same no matter what junk you throw on someones roof?

Look at the crap art they fund...  Government is greedy,arrogant, stupid and corrupt and incapable of inovation.

I would have been just as happy the government gave back all the money they took from us on all stem cell research.

If government control is good..... Then why not let the socialist countries do the research?  

lazs

[MoeRon]

There are Jews in the world.
There are Buddhists.
There are Hindus and Mormons, and then
There are those that follow Mohammed, but
I've never been one of them.

I'm a Roman Catholic,
And have been since before I was born,
And the one thing they say about Catholics is:
They'll take you as soon as you're warm.

You don't have to be a six-footer.
You don't have to have a great brain.
You don't have to have any clothes on. You're
A Catholic the moment Dad came,

Because

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

[x0847Marine]

Originally posted by Neubob
Once a supporter, albeit never a huge one, I am now officially a huge supporter of the end of his administration.

Stem cell veto


I honestly think that this man may be getting dumber by the day. He should go back to the blow and booze. It may make all our lives a bit easier.

He can take his moral boundary and shove it as far as I'm concerned.

Shrub is the moral ayatollah, don't ya know. The US Govt is a giant toilet, too bad our society is too apathetic, or pathetic, to flush all those morons.

Whats next?, murder charges for jerking off?

[Neubob]

Originally posted by lazs2
But.....  If it is a moral problem for some or most... then why should they pay for it through their taxes?
 

I'm not a fan of big government either, Lazs, but don't you think you're going a bit far with this? A concensus is a hard thing to come by these days, but that's one of the good things a governing body can do. I may be taking your statement to an absurd extreme, but  if we were all left to make decisions in exactly how all our tax revenue is spent, what would happen? Where would our roads go? Our schools and hospitals and military? We'd definitely have no nuclear weapons or submarine fleet to speak of--what then? Or is there a cut-off where taxes become coluntary donations--and if so, where is this cut off and who do you appoint to determine it?

Small government would be nice. Anarchy, however, not so nice--don't you think?

[Debonair]

Originally posted by x0847Marine
Shrub is the moral ayatollah, don't ya know. The US Govt is a giant toilet, too bad our society is too apathetic, or pathetic, to flush all those morons.

Whats next?, murder charges for jerking off?

this is only slightly related, but i'm working on a state ballot measure in favor of the death penalty for public flatulence