109's - info/assis etc

[batdog]

Been flying the 109's abit. Any tips advice on these rides? I've been sticking w/the 109f and now the g6 as well. I seem to live in the suck w/the k4 and/or g14.


Thanks
xBAT

[Krusty]

If you like the F, try the G2. It's much faster, almost as manuverable, but has the option of gondolas (in case you want them)

[Spatula]

From what i can see from various comparisons etc, the G2 is slightly faster and climbs/accelerates slightly better than the G6, and turns slightly better too.

So I cant figure out why anyone would want a G6, when the G2 is slightly better in all regards, plus earns ya more perkies

[Krusty]

G6 had better alt power, better firepower (when it had the 30mm). It's better up high if I recall. It's draggier, though.

I've gotten kills in it (since it was redone) but it never was the monster of the series, it was always the worst, heaviest, etc. G14 flies pretty nice though

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Spatula
So I cant figure out why anyone would want a G6, when the G2 is slightly better in all regards, plus earns ya more perkies

The G6 has 12.7s instead of 7.9s, so you get a bit more firepower (which is a noticeable, but not radical, improvement).  G6 might be better at altitude, if you fly up there, but most of the 109s do well at altitude.

Now that the 30mm option has been removed from the G6, though, I think it only exists for historical purposes.  We use it a lot in AvA, just because the Germans used it a lot in real life.  I doubt it ever sees much use in the MA, especially with the G14 and K4 available.

- oldman

[AutoPilot]

Keep the 109 fast, don't make hard turns with it.If your blacking out while turning the 109 you are turning way too hard and losing energy way too fast.Fly the 109 at a safe altitude, say around 10-K or higher that way if you need to gain energy it's just a matter of pointing the nose down and getting it back.Do not turn fight in a 109 with little experience, make big circles in it:example: Spitfire turns in a circle say the size of a golf ball where as the 109 turns a circle the size of Texas which is just a comparison between the two and why you shouldn't turn fight with it.

I prefer the G-2 over all the 109 models IMHO it's really the G-10 in disquise.But thats just me others will disagree.The G-2 has the same cannon but carry's more than the G-6.

When firing upon the target in a 109 make sure you get in close for the shot, say 100 or less and use very short bursts.When i fly the 109 i only fire 1 cannon round at a time which does take some practice to get the hang of but is well worth it in the end, and the german pilots in Ww2 only fired 1 round at a time.The Gondola option only slows the 109 down in a fight and limits turning ability like krusty was saying.

The best advice i can give on learning the Bf-109;

Start out flying the e model, say fly it for a week and fly nothing else but the E model.Then move too the F model for another week, then the G models and so on.At the end of every week you will know what the positives and the negatives of those aircraft are and you will have a better knowledge of when you fight them.

I have perfected a couple of evasive manuvers in the 109 and i will be in the TA all this week so if your intrested look me up and i will show you what i can.


<<>>  Todd420:aok

[batdog]

Thanks guys for all the info

Todd I might take you up on that offer soon.

[Eagler]

109f will turn with just about any plane.
learn to fly the stall buzzer using flaps, wep and rudder to hold you up when you need it as he stalls and drops under you

it isn't a great MA plane as usually some cherry picker comes along and either kills you or takes your kill - but I still like it over any other

[Iceman24]

"109f will turn with just about any plane."

Yes it will, its a turning freak and I had no idea until I flew one about a month ago in the TA, its now one of my favorite rides.. Its a match for just about any plane turn wise, the spit 5 and hurri's and zekes still out turn it by a lil bit, but the F is faster...

Todd420 or anyone else that flys 109's allot, I have been playing around with this plane allot in the TA and was wondering if you can actually do a hammerhead stall in it, I have tried everything I can think of and can't get any of the 109's to do it like I can with pony or P47.

[wetrat]

The K4 is hands-down the best of the bunch. That said, it also requires the most practice/experience, and is utterly useless if you can't figure out 30mm's. Mastering overshoots, reversals, throttle management and whatnot is the only way to actually be good in a K4. Anyone that tells you not to make hard turns and to stay fast in the thing doesn't know what they're talking about. I do most of my fighting (read: fighting, not cherry picking) slow enough to dump flaps.

Other then that, I'd say the G2 is the next best. If you ask me, it turns well enough to go with just about anything (keep in mind I turn with everything in the K4), and is much easier to hit stuff with than a K4. I find the F4 aggravatingly slow, and anyone in different 109 (the Emil doesn't count) with any modicum of talent will molest you.

[AutoPilot]

Iceman the G-2 will climb from level flight well over 5-K and hammerhead stall at 50 MPH.Just a matter of elevator trim and timing.

[Spatula]

Im pretty much a 80% pony jock, but when i feel like it i'll fly the G2 or the K4 for a change. Im going to agree with wetrat here and say you shouldnt not turn in it. The 109s accelerate like a scalded cat on amphetamines, so you can afford to turn a bit and if you aint winning the quick sucker-punch angles, you can easily accelerate away to safety, or engage "helicopter mode" (tm) and spiral upwards to safety (the K4 is pretty much untouchable if flown this way).

If your turning hard (and smartly), they have to too, or they'll concede angles; but your superior acceleration will progressively tip the E balance in your favour. 109 is the ultimate E fighter Just keep the fight heading upwards - keep the bogey's nose high and they'll loose pretty quick against a K.

No-one expects a 109G or K to start doing high-G hard turns, so when you do you can catch em off guard. If they start winning angles, just start using more vertical and watch the bogey wheeze and struggle to keep up (literally), keep you wing pointed at em and just kick rudder and roll over towards and down when they look like they struggling (wont take long) and give em a taste o' taters

Oh yer, you need WEP for the above to work - just as well it lasts flippin ages in a 109s

[AutoPilot]

Spatula,

I like your break down of 109 tactix, but what if your fighting a Ki-84?

The Ki has the same climbing ability as the 109.what would you do if the Ki matches the climb, what tactix do you resort to in that case?

Just wanted to hear what you would do.

[Spatula]

Originally posted by AutoPilot
Spatula,

I like your break down of 109 tactix, but what if your fighting a Ki-84?

The Ki has the same climbing ability as the 109.what would you do if the Ki matches the climb, what tactix do you resort to in that case?

Just wanted to hear what you would do.

If we're talking 109K4, then the tactic is valid as the K4 outclasses the Ki84 in all regards except turn performance:

http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=109k4&p2=ki84

The G2 is a bit closer, and below 5k there aint much in the climb game, so keep your G2 above 5K, or pref 10k and you wont have a prob. It seems the magic mark is around 11K where the G2 is easily faster and better climber/accelerator.

http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=109g2&p2=ki84


The spit 16 v a G2 is a closer match.
http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=109g2&p2=spit16

If in doubt fly the K4 and rule the sky The spit 16 has pretty wicked climb rate too espc under 10k or so.

[Creton]

In order as I see them

1. 109K4
2. 109G2
3. 109G6
4. 109F4
5. 109E4

The 109K4 is best over all if you know how to handle it,but the torque cab get you in trouble.I frequently fight ki84/spixteens,and over good turners.After the fight gets slow enough to get the flaps out,the other planes lack the horsepower to go vert and complete a high yoyo.

As far as scissoring with the ki84 or spit 16,the 109's decelerate at an incredible rate and with flaps out,but not over utilized,can match these planes turn for turn.

No matter the plane it almost always boils down to pilot skill.I've dueled zekes and ki84's and everything else against the 109's ,and while I lose to these planes at times,overall I'm successful at defeating them.

I'm sure that they're better 109 pilots out there than myself,and that most don't share my like for the 109's,but I've yet to find any one pilot or plane than can dominate the 109K4 in the main arena or in the DA.

Most people give up early on the 109K4 because of the time it takes to learn the tater gun,once they get it down though,theyre in it for life.

The 109G2 was my exclusive ride for quite a few years,mostly due to the fact that I coouldnt get the tater on the G10/K4 figured out.The G2 is an amazing a/c and turns better than the other g models,IMHO.Over all speed is a little lacking in comparison to the K4 ,but with mid 350mph ability and with a little less than 300 fpm climb than a K4, it's a great plane.

Once in a dogfight in any 109 ,you must use aggressive throttle management/flaps/and vert,why fight to the weakness of your plane
It doesnt flat turn to good ,but doing pitchbacks and high yoyo's are what it excels at,and these both can be performed at as little as 70 mph.

I never realized how slow I was getting in tight turn fights until last evening
in the DA,I filmed my fights against FX1's spit16 and was actually stalling
at the top and reverseing back at 70 mph,I was still in control of the a/c.

I recommend for people who prefer 109's, to fly the 109G2 first ,and then progress to the others until you master the 109 K4