Author Topic: Web page design tools? (Read 910 times)

funkedup · « **Reply #15 on:** January 09, 2002, 02:47:00 PM »

Dreamweaver rules.
I use PaintShop Pro and Photoshop too.

Spitboy · « **Reply #16 on:** January 09, 2002, 08:25:00 PM »

Frontpage has a bad rep cause, like most Microsoft products, it doesn't play well with others. The latest version are a better than old ones, but FP tends to lock you into using FP on your site.

Dreamweaver of Golive are very nice. But I would also urge you to learn raw coding. EditPlus is my favorite code editor.

Photoshop is nice.

Tac · « **Reply #17 on:** January 09, 2002, 08:35:00 PM »

problem with those editors is the huge, unbelievably HUGE amount of sheer GARBAGE code they have (result of user putting stuff and deleting or moving it in the editor GUI..and the editor not removing the tags!)

A friend of mine sent me a page just so that I could give him a simple FLASH menu for his frames... I saw his html pages... 24 PAGES of pure garbage. All for a mere 4 paragraphs of text and 2 pictures shown. It was much faster to copy/paste the text and pictures off the browser and put the tags manually. HORRIDO!

flakbait · « **Reply #18 on:** January 09, 2002, 10:23:00 PM »

Yup, what Tac said. I used to use a Wizzywig editor but the amount of crap code it pumped out was horrid. Nowadays I stick with 1st Page 2000 cause it lets you do many more things. Automatic CSS converstions, XML conversions, codes in a dozen languages including ASP, PHP, CGI, Javascript, XML, HTML, and DHTML. Includes 450 javascripts, a few CGI gizmos, cleans up your code, and totals a mere 7 megs to download.
www.evrsoft.com

Did I mention this thing is free?

Graphics I do with Paint Shop Pro 7 cause it works on an old system. Instead of blowing 600 bucks on Photoshop, blow a hundred and basically get the same thing for a LOT less of a resource hog. Comes with Animation Shop 3 for animated GIF's, uses Photoshop plugins without any gripe, and edits any image format. Free trial here, it's 30 megs.
www.jasc.com

Frontpage 2k is a joke cause it's a Wizzywig editor, same goes for Netcrap's built-in Composer. Neither likes Javascript all that much from my experience, and they rarely put out clean code. Hot Dog I've tried and laughed at; too simple for my taste. Same goes for Homesite and Dreamweaver; too much money for a program that does the same thing as another one I can get for free.

-----------------------
Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"For yay did the sky darken, and split open and spew forth fire, and
through the smoke rode the Four Wurgers of the Apocalypse.
And on their canopies was tattooed the number of the Beast, and the
number was 190." Jedi, Verse Five, Capter Two, The Book of Dweeb

SageFIN · « **Reply #19 on:** January 10, 2002, 01:33:00 AM »

Vim and notepad are the way to go. Building skills from the ground up benefits. Also I'd like to point out that clarity and ease of navigation are very important in a site.

Soulyss · « **Reply #20 on:** January 10, 2002, 02:03:00 AM »

It all depends on what you're goals are. If you just want to make a webpage for yourself that no one else will have to fiddle with, and you don't have any goal of making a career out of it go ahead and use somthing like Dreamweaver etc. But if you have higher goals use a html text editor and learn the code, I've allways favored Homesite it's easy to read and has good tools.

The problem with the visual editors like Dreamweaver and Frontpage as others have mentioned is the spit out a ton to junk code and also do stupid things like nesting tables inside of other tables and such which can increase the load times on Netscape (at leat the older versions) and crap like that, and it's a nightmare to disipher it later.

Duedel · « **Reply #21 on:** January 10, 2002, 02:51:00 AM »

Do you a favor and dont use Frontpage. Its changing ur own HTML code. So if u dont like to know HTML and use an Editor for HTML like ahm Word for DOC-Files than ... OK take Frontpage. But if u like to program ur own HTML than use a free HTML-Editor like Arachnophilia (hope i spelled it right). A HTML-Editor is better than Notepad because it highlights the tags and attributes, lets u see what u do and validates ur HTML.

Kieran · « **Reply #22 on:** January 10, 2002, 06:15:00 AM »

I teach web development at our high school; I understand where you guys are coming from when you say use Notepad, believe me, we do that too. The fact is most people will never want to do it that way. Those of you that have learned Flash or Photoshop realize the learning curve to get up to speed in those programs is light years ahead of what it takes to write HTML, and in my mind are far more useful ways to spend one's time.

I do have to clarify one thing though; just because you use FP or Dreamweaver doesn't mean you are "locked in". I think you'd find most people actually use a mix of items, an "anything that works" approach. Yes, the code can be bloated, but you learn how to use the parts that save you time and use Notepad for the real stuff.

Saintaw · « **Reply #23 on:** January 10, 2002, 06:38:00 AM »

VI!

Ultraedit32 for the editing part.
And what you're looking for the picture part, take a look at macromedia's Fireworks. it's also integrated to Dreamweaver (html editor).

If you're looking for graphic goodies, go to www.guistuff.com and if you're wanting to learn a bit more about it...
http://www.w3.org/ http://www.w3schools.com/

Tac · « **Reply #24 on:** January 10, 2002, 10:06:00 AM »

Aye aye Kieran. I took an HTML course in college just to get an easy A+ to boost my ..umm... average GPA

I had a girl in the class who really had no clue what she was doing, and the teacher was using a lot of frontpage and using a textbook for "teaching" the html tags. Basically, the whole course was using editors and then seeing the code and identifying what was going on. It was horrible. People were facing 2 page long garbage tags with their text in between them with no spacing..and they were supposed to guess wtf was going on in there..lol.

Near the end of the course this poor girl was so incredibly confused (as the majority of the class) she was going to fail. In the library I gave her the 1-page list of the most common html commands and spent 6 hours making her make her own web page with those tags in NOTEPAD. She passed the course easily after that.

NOTEPAD is the best HTML teacher. If you have the list of tag commands, a sample website (done in notepad) that uses most of those commands, and 1 or 2 free days, you will learn it in no time.

Its fun too!

Kratzer · « **Reply #25 on:** January 10, 2002, 11:12:00 AM »

Notepad works great, but visual interdev is nice because it color codes tags, and remembers your indents, so it is faster, and easier to see when you screw up. It's also expensive, and if the company didn't buy it, I wouldn't use it.

In any case, I'm sure there are some of those other editors that do the same thing for cheap/free.

Kieran · « **Reply #26 on:** January 10, 2002, 11:34:00 AM »

The trick to successfully teaching students to write web pages in HTML is to bring them into it in stages. You start with basic tags, then begin to draw in other elements. Once the student can lay out a page, add a sound or video, and make hyperlinks you can move to more advanced concepts like frames and tables. Understanding tables in particular is essential. Once you understand how to write a Notepad HTML page that includes complex tables you have mastered the pure "HTML" part of HTML. After that you can introduce CSS, DHTML, JavaScript, Java, or whatever other scripting language you prefer.

The thing FrontPage, Dreamweaver, GoLive!, and similar programs do is to allow a person who is not web-centric to put information on the web with a minimum of fuss. Witness AKDejaVu's stat pages. He initially popped those up there with FP- so what? They worked, and I would rather him spend his time perfecting his database (far more complicated than HTML) than to waste time with skills he doesn't really want or absolutely need in the first place.

No, a person that only uses FP or Dreamweaver isn't really a web developer. These are still valid tools in the home and workplace nonetheless.

Edit for clarity.

[ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: Kieran ]