Author Topic: France sides with Hezbollah  (Read 4698 times)

Offline Masherbrum

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France sides with Hezbollah
« Reply #150 on: August 11, 2006, 11:28:12 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
Who is this "They"?  The majority of Palistinians would agree to a two state solution if it ment peace.


1948 seems like yesterday, eh?
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Offline Hazzer

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« Reply #151 on: August 11, 2006, 01:41:59 PM »
What is happening in Lebanon should shame the world.It's to easy for us over here to condemn when we don't have to pay the Butchers bill.
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Offline Maverick

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« Reply #152 on: August 11, 2006, 01:44:01 PM »
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Originally posted by Hazzer
What is happening in Lebanon should shame the world.It's to easy for us over here to condemn when we don't have to pay the Butchers bill.


So you're OK with what's going on in Haifa then.
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Offline Hazzer

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« Reply #153 on: August 11, 2006, 01:54:24 PM »
Oh an Kev 367th by your definition the whole resistance movement during wwII should have been locked up or executed after hostilities ceased,of course those unfortunate enough to be in the east were arrested and many executed by the russians using your criteria.Propaganda could turn the most upright citizen into a terrorist/freedom fighter -you decide-if we don't question are leaders and  soak up propaganda like a sponge.

interestingly the british Goverment locked up the err resistance fighters on Jersey after the war on evidence of the german occupiers .
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Offline Hazzer

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« Reply #154 on: August 11, 2006, 01:59:47 PM »
No I'm not ok with whats going on in haifa.Jeez

I don't like seeing dead babies being put in plastic bags be they Jews or Muslims or any other religion for that matter! Happy now.
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Offline Rolex

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« Reply #155 on: August 11, 2006, 06:36:12 PM »
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
And you wonder why people respond to you in a manner you do not like. It shouldn't surprise anyone. And you ask why no one gives any consideration to what you write. You gave your own answer, clearly.


That is a very bizarre thing to write. I didn't wonder or ask either of those things.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2006, 06:48:56 PM by Rolex »

Offline Toad

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« Reply #156 on: August 11, 2006, 07:01:07 PM »
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Originally posted by Rolex
And that ends my analogy to the middle east today. :)

 


An interesting read but I didn't really get an answer.

Or is your answer that there is no standard? No determining factor? No place to clearly draw the line?

I think that's what you meant, or at least what I got out of your post.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I will subsequently tell you my view.
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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France sides with Hezbollah
« Reply #157 on: August 11, 2006, 07:43:34 PM »
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Originally posted by deSelys
Captn, IMHO you belong to those posters whom replies are very rarely constructive or interesting...


Spare me. IMHO? Yeah right, The "H" stands for Humble. Give me a break. The reason you declare it uninteresting and not constructive is you don't agree with it.
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Offline Rolex

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France sides with Hezbollah
« Reply #158 on: August 11, 2006, 09:39:22 PM »
Hi Toad,

You're right. I don't have a good answer. I don't even have a bad answer.

A wide DMZ across the 1948 line between Lebanon and Israel in the Korea model isn't workable since Lebanon isn't a totalitarian regime with people trying to escape and there are too many people with too many ties across the border to limit all travel.

I don't know of any lines that will work for Palestine-Israel-Jerusalem, even if we could go back in time to start again without 800,000+ refugees and erase the memories of almost two generations of people.

The entire process from the early 40s is like a Rube Goldberg machine, but without anything getting accomplished at the end.

I'm all ears though...
« Last Edit: August 11, 2006, 09:45:31 PM by Rolex »

Offline Elfie

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« Reply #159 on: August 11, 2006, 11:11:52 PM »
There is no solution. At least not until the Muslims recognize Israel's right to exist and they stop the terror attacks on Israel.

Israel has already pulled out of the Sinai and taken the settlers with them. Same with the Gaza Strip. Israel pulled out of southern Lebanon once already as well. Terrorist attacks have continued after Israel pulled out of Lebanon (Hezbollah) and the Gaza Strip (Hamas).

Israel has shown *good faith* imo. Should they pull out of the West Bank also? Not yet imo. Not until the Muslims show some *good faith* also.
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Offline Edbert1

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France sides with Hezbollah
« Reply #160 on: August 13, 2006, 02:23:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rolex
A wide DMZ across the 1948 line between Lebanon and Israel in the Korea model isn't workable since Lebanon isn't a totalitarian regime with people trying to escape and there are too many people with too many ties across the border to limit all travel.

That's not completely accurate. A coworker of mine has in-laws that live in Lebanon today. They've been trying for decades to get out and cannot get a Visa.

Offline Rolex

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« Reply #161 on: August 13, 2006, 07:45:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert1
That's not completely accurate. A coworker of mine has in-laws that live in Lebanon today. They've been trying for decades to get out and cannot get a Visa.


I would not know why they couldn't get a credit card.

A visa, however, is issued by the country of destination, not the country of origin. They are issued at a port of entry or the embassy of the destination country depending on the type of visa and conditions the destination country has set for the citizens of the origin country.

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Offline Toad

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« Reply #162 on: August 13, 2006, 08:04:55 PM »
Who owns the land?

If one were to say the original inhabitants, then most countries would undergo major changes in political structure.

That isn't going to happen.

Land now belongs to those that have the oldest squatters rights and the power to back their claim for lack of a better explanation. It's why the Native Americans are not going to get the US or Canada back.

The Arabs aren't going to get Israel back because the Israelis have UN documents giving them the territory that is now Israel. They are squatting on that land and won't give it up. Israel may eventually pull entirely out of land added to the UN delineated territory by conquest but I think they'll hold some of that until they feel their security and nationhood are assured.

I wonder what the US and Canada would do if Native Americans started strapping on dynamite belts and blowing up pizza parlors full of squatters.
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Offline hacksaw1

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« Reply #163 on: August 14, 2006, 04:09:09 AM »
Who owns the land?

1937 Peel Commission report on the British Mandate of Palestine

Chapter IX. - The Land

A summary of land legislation enacted during the Civil Administration shows the efforts made to fulfil the Mandatory obligation in this matter. The Commission point to serious difficulties in connection with the legislation proposed by the Palestine Government for the protection of small owners. The Palestine Order in Council and, if necessary, the Mandate should be amended to permit of legislation empowering the High Commissioner to prohibit the transfer of land in any stated area to Jews, so that the obligation to safeguard the right and position of the Arabs may be carried out. Until survey and settlement are complete, the Commission would welcome the prohibition of the sale of isolated and comparatively small plots of land to Jews. They would prefer larger schemes for the rearrangement of proprietorship under Government supervision. They favour the proposal for the creation of special Public Utility Companies to undertake such development schemes subject to certain conditions.

An expert Committee should be appointed to draw up a Land Code.

Recommendations are made with a view to the expediting of settlement (the need for which is paramount) and to the improvement of settlement procedure.

The present system of Land Courts is contributory to delay. Until survey and settlement are complete there should be two or three Land Courts separate from the District Courts and each under a single British Judge.

Up till now the Arab cultivator has benefited on the whole both from the work of the British Administration and the presence of Jews in the country, but the greatest care must now be exercised to see that in the event of further sales of land by Arabs to Jews the rights of any Arab tenants or cultivators are preserved. Thus, alienation of land should only be allowed where it is possible to replace extensive by intensive cultivation. In the hill districts there can be no expectation of finding accommodation for any large increase in the rural population. At present, and for many years to come, the Mandatory Power should not attempt to facilitate the close settlement of the Jews in the hill districts generally.

The shortage of land is due less to purchase by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population. The Arab claims that the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamps and uncultivated when it was bought.

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Seems to me that after Allenby conquered the Central Power allied Ottomans in the Middle East that during the decades of British Government in Palestine (1917-1948) Jewish land purchases were subject to British approval.

Peel Commission

Offline Edbert1

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« Reply #164 on: August 14, 2006, 09:09:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
The Arabs aren't going to get Israel back because the Israelis have UN documents giving them the territory that is now Israel. They are squatting on that land and won't give it up. Israel may eventually pull entirely out of land added to the UN delineated territory by conquest but I think they'll hold some of that until they feel their security and nationhood are assured.

I agree with you Toad, except for the term conquest. Israel did not take that extra land by conquest, while the term may be debatable don't forget the wars that caused the borders to shift were not started by Israel (they pulled out of the Sinai, the only war Israel technically started). The term conquest, to me, indicates an offensive military operation, like Lebensraum, or Manifest Destiny (high sounding terms eh?). Israel was attacked, and captured territory as a result of the conflict to act as a buffer against future attacks. If we discount that methodology then when will the state of Prussia be reconsituted, or the Hopi Empire? I ask becuase they were truly gained through "conquest".