OK Idea to Stop the potatods

[mars01]

Maybe this has been thought out before, I didn't have any luck in search tho.

The Problem:  Too many people overwhelming a field where the defending numbers are low or non existent.

1)  Put a limit on the number of planes based on a weighted scale and a percentage.  

For example:  

0 the numbers in the area a equal.  
-1 to -n the numbers for your country are lower than enemy.  
1 to n the numbers for your country are greater than the enemy for the area in question.

2)  When the weights reach a percentage that is defined as a hored, limit or deny the plane set from the supporting fields, in that area, of the overwhelming country.  

This should have the intended affect of making the overflow of people move to another area of the map or wait for the numbers to equalize.

Of course people that just have to be part of the whorde can up from a base farther away that is enabled.


This could change the way maps are designed and involve more tactics other than just pure numbers and overwhelming the opponent.

[indy007]

Sounds good. It's similar to a formula used when you're writing simple AI routines. It works best in strategy games (especially turn based) for discovering troop densities. Basically, take an array (2d or 3d) and give it a value of '1' if that position in the array has somebody in it. The next loop through the array checks each position, if the value = 1, check each side of it. Increment the value once for each side that has somebody in it.

In a flat, 2d environment, which guys setup like this.. (assume x = little guy & o = empty spot)

xooxo
oxxxo
oxxxo
oxxxo
ooxox

You'd end up with an array that looked like:

20030
04640
06960
04640
00402


Therefore, the highest value is a current hotspot, and game rules can be applied accordingly. It works in 3d too. The only difference is the numbers are bigger, and adjusting the range values to check positioning takes a few more lines of coad.

Primitive, but it works.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by mars01
Maybe this has been thought out before, I didn't have any luck in search tho.

The Problem:  Too many people overwhelming a field where the defending numbers are low or non existent.

1)  Put a limit on the number of planes based on a weighted scale and a percentage.  

For example:  

0 the numbers in the area a equal.  
-1 to -n the numbers for your country are lower than enemy.  
1 to n the numbers for your country are greater than the enemy for the area in question.

2)  When the weights reach a percentage that is defined as a hored, limit or deny the plane set from the supporting fields, in that area, of the overwhelming country.  

This should have the intended affect of making the overflow of people move to another area of the map or wait for the numbers to equalize.

Of course people that just have to be part of the whorde can up from a base farther away that is enabled.


This could change the way maps are designed and involve more tactics other than just pure numbers and overwhelming the opponent.

Expect a mass of "You want to force me to play the game your way!" commentaries shortly Mars

I'm afraid too many folks find their comfort and fun in the horde, as silly as that sounds.  As long as multi-kill "attaboys" and win the reset/ land grab is the key, the horde will remain.  Much easier to get 10 vulch kills and think you've won something with the reset that way.

[Krusty]

Hey now, I was under the weather when I got those 11 vulches! I had a bad head cold and couldn't function normally! I was justified! lmao

Overall I think you're right, though.

[Mace2004]

You can't be serious.  For those that like to organize large strikes (a "horde") and want to go for bases then overwhelming numbers are important and realistic.  Many RL doctrines call for 2 or 3 times your opponent's numbers, that's life.  If you don't like flying in a horde (I'll bet you have, haven't you?)  then don't.  Remember, one man's "horde" is another man's mutual support :-)  If you don't like being on the receiving end then move to a different field or wait them out.  It's fun to up at a field at the tail end of a horde after many are RTB and out of rounds after shooting up everything important or unimportant.  It's also fun to launch with a counter horde from an adjacent field and slaughter all the porkers and vulchers.  I'll sometimes fly in a horde, particularly when my squad wants everyone together but I don't care much about capturing fields unless we're at a major disadvantage and the whole country is pushed back to a few fields.  I'll typically fly either alone or with one or two squadmates and have no trouble finding smaller engagements.  

Mace

[storch]

make it so you need 30+ troops to capture, harden the CVs to somewhat more realistic levels.  CVs were very difficult to sink in the big un (dubya-dubya two) IIRC only six CVs were ever lost to direct enemy action.  wouldn't hurt to have an additional VH at or near the town and to allow certain planes to be upped outta the VHs.  add manable 88mm AAA and there you may have a formula to create fights and stop the potatoding (good phrase btw)

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by storch
make it so you need 30+ troops to capture, harden the CVs to somewhat more realistic levels.  CVs were very difficult to sink in the big un (dubya-dubya two) IIRC only six CVs were ever lost to direct enemy action.  wouldn't hurt to have an additional VH at or near the town and to allow certain planes to be upped outta the VHs.  add manable 88mm AAA and there you may have a formula to create fights and stop the potatoding (good phrase btw)

To go with that, why not have Satellite fields nearby that fighters up from?  More often then not, any airfield had 'fighter strips' nearby so it wasn't just one field that had to be put out of action.

[indy007]

Originally posted by Mace2004
You can't be serious.  For those that like to organize large strikes (a "horde") and want to go for bases then overwhelming numbers are important and realistic.  

Mace

I think you'll find the horde exists without direction. It's the natural tendency for players to gravitate towards the largest fight. Large missions are the exception, not the rule.

To solve the large mission problem... A 1 minute wait between density calculations lets the entire horde up what they want for the attack. It wouldn't even effect vulchers taking off after the horde, because of the propensity to vulch in high ENY airframes to farm perks. Once the first few people pancake/ack death/rtb, the density spreads out, removing ENY restrictions from fields contributing to horde.

I wouldn't be suprised if HT already uses something similar to vector AI in ToD.

[Donzo]

Here's a flaw:
Base arrangement: A--B--C
A & C belong to country A
B belongs to country B
Horde leaves out of B to attack C.  Your proposal would place a restriction on base B.
Country A sees the horde approaching C and since they are smart and know about the new "anti-horde" gizmo, they do not up at C to defend.  Instead they up at A and attack B...fighters cannot up at B so they will cap B quickly, drop the VH, bring in the troops and take B.

[Mace2004]

Originally posted by indy007
I think you'll find the horde exists without direction. It's the natural tendency for players to gravitate towards the largest fight. Large missions are the exception, not the rule.

That's absolutely true, there are many reasons hordes develop; missions (both formal and informal), desire for a numbers advantage, desire to help take a base (or defend), newbies who are going with the crowd...lots of reasons.  My point is so what?  There are always other places you can go when a horde shows up.  The only legitimate argument you can make against them is that you're trying to defend a particular field and they want to take it.  If they send sufficient numbers...you lose.  Not really sufficient reason to impose yet more unrealistic numerical rules on the game.  Staying with a group, even very large groups, is a valid strategy, just because someone else thinks the group is "too large" isn't justification to prevent them from doing it.

Mace

[indy007]

Originally posted by Donzo
fighters cannot up at B so they will cap B quickly, drop the VH, bring in the troops and take B.

Your situation already happens. The only difference would be available fighters. There are fighters with high ENY. Not only do they get kills, but they're virtual favorites for point defense. That's not even bothering to mention the IL2 "attack/bomber" defense.

In other words, your flaw doesn't matter... Try looking at your line this way...

Country A sees the horde approaching C and since they are smart and know there is no "anti-horde" gizmo, they do not up at C to defend. Instead they up at A and attack B...fighters can up at B, but they're low, slow, and about to die.

Pretty much the same scenario as you described, whether the system was in place or not. When that situation happens, the fighter escort for the mission should have more than enough guys to CAP their own base. If horde missions were that important to people, they'd be doing it anyways to make sure ord & troops stay up.

[indy007]

Originally posted by Mace2004
That's absolutely true
Mace

I'm not complaining about the horde. I don't care what side I'm on, how unbalanced numbers are, or how many la7/spit16s are chasing my poor wittle n1k... I just like fighting.

That said, if an idea doesn't sound ridiculous, I'll help somebody flesh it out. It's not like he asked for B29s & n00000ks

[Mace2004]

ohhhhhh...B29's.....n00ks.....now we're talking.  This would probably even reduce the need for a horde to take a base...just n00k it and no one can use it for 50 yrs.

[MotorOil1]

Soooo..... we should take fields without overwhelming them?  Sounds like a good way for a map to drag on.

[mars01]

I'll start from the bottom up

Soooo..... we should take fields without overwhelming them? Sounds like a good way for a map to drag on.

No you should take bases, by fighting for them.  Overwhelming numbers is not fighting.  You want to play a game where all you do is take real estate, play monopoly.


http://www.hasbro.com/monopoly/


Man why is so hard for people to understand this game is about the fight, not just flying from base to base unopposed.. [rollseyes]