Author Topic: The 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism  (Read 1803 times)

Offline lasersailor184

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The 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism
« Reply #45 on: September 02, 2006, 06:14:04 PM »
Socialism is the legislating away of personal freedoms on the way to Communism (the ultimate goal).  However, the Soviet Union was a Fascist state for the exact same reasons listed above.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #46 on: September 02, 2006, 06:17:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by J_A_B
That list is carefully worded, much like a horoscope.  Depending on how you interpret it, you could make it apply to virtually any country in the world.

J_A_B


I was thinking pretty much the same thing
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Offline lukster

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« Reply #47 on: September 02, 2006, 06:21:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fishu
Uh, what do you mean? how do you get to that conclusion by my post?


You said the list was from facist states he examined, not those that have existed. I guess I should ask what states did he examine to create his list?



What I meant was that if his list of characteristics aren't observations from self proclaimed facist states then isn't he redefining "fasicsm" as embraced by it's founders?
« Last Edit: September 02, 2006, 06:24:09 PM by lukster »

Offline lukster

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« Reply #48 on: September 02, 2006, 06:28:08 PM »
Maybe this will help fuirther the discussion of "Fascism".

http://www.library.wisc.edu/libraries/dpf/Fascism/Intro.html

Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #49 on: September 02, 2006, 06:29:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fishu
I think denial of the previous characteristics when majority of those are true is the 15th characteristic.


They ae all pretty on cept 2,5,6,10,11 &14.

hmmmm thats 6 of 14....or 15 if we include yours.

Guess your right. That "Majority" of them are

by a whole two

Three if we include yours
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Offline lukster

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« Reply #50 on: September 02, 2006, 06:36:14 PM »
If his observations were made chiefly from Nazi Germany then we're talking about socialism, not fascism. Germany did name itself a socialist state afterall. Perhaps that won't fit his ideology in regards to socialism though. How inconvenient for him.

Offline Fishu

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« Reply #51 on: September 02, 2006, 06:46:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lukster
If his observations were made chiefly from Nazi Germany then we're talking about socialism, not fascism. Germany did name itself a socialist state afterall. Perhaps that won't fit his ideology in regards to socialism though. How inconvenient for him.


Ahh.. I checked the dictionary and found out where I made the mistake, now I understand what you were after. You can nevermind the post then. Got me a little puzzled.

Offline Fishu

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« Reply #52 on: September 02, 2006, 07:16:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
They ae all pretty on cept 2,5,6,10,11 &14.

hmmmm thats 6 of 14....or 15 if we include yours.


2. Gitmo. That is only for one example, sufficient I might say.

5. Bush is pretty much against abortion and promotes christian values on marriage. Lots of people are alike him in the government. I suppose there are also more men than women in the higher positions and in the congress? Condoleza Rice (sp) is an exception to the male dominance, perhaps she's the "almost" factor. However, she'd make no difference to male leaders if we wouldn't know she's a she. A good reason why she's there - She's no whining lady which would be a nuisance to a fascist regime.

6. The media IS being controlled in the states. The government is using the media to push their agenda into the people. There are many ways to utilize the media without direct control or censorship.

10. I've read of many people on this board being negative towards labor unions. Wallmart or whatever mall chain is disencouraging workers from being a part of a union. I suppose republicans, as the flag holders of the corporate america, doesn't care for the unions either.

14. Florida? The past smear campaigns?


We need to review the list after next election or two. Those will mark the corner stones on the path to fascism.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2006, 07:20:22 PM by Fishu »

Offline Squire

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« Reply #53 on: September 02, 2006, 07:41:39 PM »
I would say #8 isn't always the case. Sometimes the fascist state will view religion of any kind as a threat (you cant have folks praying to a higher power), and actively subvert it. China is an example, the govt does not like organised religion there. Nazi Germany wasnt keen on the church either, but christianity was too well entrenched for them to be overly blatant about subverting it.
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Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #54 on: September 02, 2006, 07:42:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fishu
I think denial of the previous characteristics when majority of those are true is the 15th characteristic.


I think that either denying or accepting the mindless babble would be pretty pathetic. I also think that if someone was actualy gullible enough to give either the author or the article any thought as to being a  researched , indepth study wouldn`t have to worry about denial or accepting the list. If someone couldn`t see the lame attempt of the boggled intent and gobbled it down, government, social decline or anything in the real world would be the least of your worries. At that lobotomy state you would already be in the sheep pen ringing a dinner bell for a wolf who might pass by............any wolf.
I believe that most any average grade school child could have spent an hour with reference books and came up with an essay that would be more unglaringly obvious as to the intent. With just a bit more effort, the same kid could address it to any country that has any noticeable impact on world affairs with the changing of the wording and have at least a better chance of not being considered mindless and pathetic.
At least it was published where it belonged and addressed to the buyers of the ship in the desert crowd for which the publication is intended.
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Offline Squire

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« Reply #55 on: September 02, 2006, 07:51:20 PM »
Although all "states" to some degree subvert individual rights (even democracies), I would say the stand out feature of real democracies are the seperation of powers, ie, an independant judiciary, and a genuine elected body (or bodies), backed up by entrenched institutions, and traditions. Thats why they are slow to evolve, and were rare at the start of the 20th century.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #56 on: September 02, 2006, 07:58:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fishu
2. Gitmo. That is only for one example, sufficient I might say.

5. Bush is pretty much against abortion and promotes christian values on marriage. Lots of people are alike him in the government. I suppose there are also more men than women in the higher positions and in the congress? Condoleza Rice (sp) is an exception to the male dominance, perhaps she's the "almost" factor. However, she'd make no difference to male leaders if we wouldn't know she's a she. A good reason why she's there - She's no whining lady which would be a nuisance to a fascist regime.

6. The media IS being controlled in the states. The government is using the media to push their agenda into the people. There are many ways to utilize the media without direct control or censorship.

10. I've read of many people on this board being negative towards labor unions. Wallmart or whatever mall chain is disencouraging workers from being a part of a union. I suppose republicans, as the flag holders of the corporate america, doesn't care for the unions either.

14. Florida? The past smear campaigns?


We need to review the list after next election or two. Those will mark the corner stones on the path to fascism.


Lets start with the biggest first shall we. 14

Florida was not fixed.

Like it or not, for better or for worse Bush WON Florida.

All recounts after the election. including on conducted by "THE Reverand Jessie Jackson" Showed Bush Won Florida

As for smear campaigns. They are hardly unique to the last couple of elections

2 Gitmo is a poor example. What was/is being done there isnt any different then we have done throughout our history.
Ad isnt anything any country of any type has done throughout history.
Hardly something that is unique to Facism

5 Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated.
Ummmm http://www.cawp.rutgers.edu/Facts/Officeholders/cong-current.html
BTW Last time I checked. Abortion was still legal

6, heh I dont know which media your watching "the 700 club" perhaps?

10. I too speak negativly about Unions. Primarily because they have gone from addressing legitimate concerns. To being unreasonable whining crybabies who just want to suck the teet dry.

Hell around these parts postal carriers dont even have to get out of their trucks to deliver mail if there is a car blocking the roadside box (poor babies)

But unions still exist and still weild considerable power.
Just because unions, or a particular union doesnt get everything they want doesnt mean its being supressed.

And many of todays labor laws make unions less important

But as for 10 " Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed. "



Today most labor unions in the United States are members of one of two larger umbrella organizations: the American Federation of Labor-Congress of Industrial Organizations (AFL-CIO) or the Change to Win Federation, which split from the AFL-CIO in 2005. Both organizations advocate policies and legislation favorable to workers in the United States and Canada, and take an active role in Democratic party politics. The AFL-CIO is especially concerned with global trade issues.

Private sector union members are tightly regulated by the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA), passed in 1935. The law is overseen by the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB), part of the United States Department of Labor. Public sector unions are regulated partly by federal and partly by state laws. In general they have shown robust growth rates, for wages and working conditions are set through negotiations with elected local and state officials. The unions' political power thus comes into play, and of course the local government cannot threaten to move elsewhere, nor is there any threat from foreign competition. In California the public sector unions have been especially successful.

SOURCE
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Offline Suave

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The 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism
« Reply #57 on: September 03, 2006, 02:11:58 AM »
I think the sexism characteristic is a little shaky, since the vast majority of all governments presently and historically have been male dominated; I wouldn't call this a defining characteristic of fascism.

One thing that I can think of that may be missing from the list is military conquest. There are very few fascist states that I can think of that did not try to annex their neighbors.

Offline Suave

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« Reply #58 on: September 03, 2006, 02:47:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lukster
If his observations were made chiefly from Nazi Germany then we're talking about socialism, not fascism.  


No

Socialism is an economic system, fascism is a system of government. Many fascists states have had socialist economies.

Also bear in mind that facsist states often will adopt titles that have benevolent connotations. Nazi Germany was no more socialist than the DPRK is democratic, or the PRC is a republic.

Hey another defining characteristic ?

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #59 on: September 03, 2006, 10:29:27 AM »
fishu... have you been to england?  the state runs everything and there are brit flags everywhere you look.. people are wearing em and they are printed on everything you see.

The government takes most of everyones money in taxes... I would say that england fits the description far more than the U.S.

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