Convoy ambush video

[Dago]

Originally posted by AquaShrimp
I just watched the video.  

Plain and simple, the armored humvee escorting truck one and five abandoned them!  At the very least, the humvee could have picked up the survivors from truck one and five.  Shoot, they just hit the gas and got out of there!


Whatever happened to showing a bit of bravery?  Bravery is doing the right thing even though you are scared.  

But why would someone be terrified, sitting in an armored humvee, protected by a gun shield, wearing a kevlar helmet and body armor, with an M2 machine gun and hundreds of rounds of ammunition?  Only thing that could have penetrated that humvee would be RPGs and rounds bigger than 7.62mm.

I think this is a case of inexperienced, scared troops, and perhaps very poor tactics.  Heres what I think should have been done:  The humvee stops, the gunner suppresses the insurgents, the driver runs out and gathers up the civilian contractors.  Wouldn't have taken more than 45 seconds.

While trying to be diplomatic, I dont think you have a clue about the situation, or the capabilities of the weapons they were using.   Yes, the insurgents were using RPGs, and yes, the troops did follow SOPs as required.  They could have stayed in place, but they would have just died a foolish and useless death and been no help to anyone, or, they could do as they did, got out of the immediate kill zone, organize and do whatever they could to stop the attack, rescue those possible, treat injuries and call for support.

The rounds the insurgents are using are quite deadly, and the RPGS will toast a humvee in a heartbeat.

Please do not second guess troops in combat, under deadly attack unless you truely know what they are facing, and more honestly, unless you have walked in their shoes.

[FiLtH]

Not every soldier, and I would think it would apply more to reserve soldiers, are born again hard. When the fan is hit with the brown stuff, nobody knows how someone will react. Its easy to say the humvee should have stopped, but in that tight space with God knows what was around there, I think I would have sped down the road to get my bearings and figure the best course of action.  Besides it looks like the truck rear-ended the humvee, and probably that made the driver of the humvee punch it.

   I too think Iraqis should be the drivers. That said, the civi driver do know the risk an at some point decided that the money was worth the risk.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by FUNKED1
Mission Accomplished!

The transformation is complete. From someone who understood politics to a school teacher. I'm betting you don't tip either.

[AquaShrimp]

Dago, don't tell me not to second guess the troops.  Whats your credentials?  Do you think that going through boot-camp and AIT school makes these national guard soldiers elite killing machines?  Shoot, before the second gulf war, and all through the 90s, I had only heard about how horrible the training and combat readiness of National Guard units were.  

I did not see a single RPG fired in this ambush.  None were fired during the initial assault, none were fired at the defenseless trucks.  The debate here is not whether a humvee could withstand a RPG hit (yes, they have before).  The debate is why the truckers were left for 45 minutes, when I can name several battles in which convoys came under attack from machine guns and rpgs, and people were rescued from disabled vehicles due to the heroism of soldiers.

[Excel1]

not saying that the guardsman protecting that convoy didn't do their job to the best of their ability, but if I was in their shoes I wouldn't be too enthusiastic about being used as a private security force, and going the 'extra mile'  for a an outfit like Halliburton wouldn't be high on my list of things to do.

[Fishu]

I don't see anything unusual in the video, other than the facts of war.

The convoy is lightly escorted. they had truck number 1 fall over and number 5 simply stopped. They still had trucks 2, 3 and 5. Only one humwee escort could have stopped to try and help, which most likely wasn't even the one in radio contact with the truck driver. On such a narrow road it would have took some time to turn around a humwee, let alone if you'd try to pick more humwees from further ahead. The other humwees have heavy trucks trailing them at fast speed, they had to keep going and escort them out of the hell hole.

It was an ambush, they had no idea of the extent of it; it could been a light or strong ambush. Turning around and then stopping there with a single humwee could be nothing short of a suicide. Instead of a possibly lost driver, there'd be the unit of a humwee lost too. One less escort for the ambushers to worry about. There wasn't strong enough escort to begin with.

The worst thing you can do in an ambush on a narrow road is to stop and try to turn around. You can't stop to think, you must either run through and hope for the best or then you'll have to stop half the convoy and slow down the rest. By stoppping there you won't achieve anything else than becoming a sitting duck. You can't effectively fight back against an unknown enemy which is all around you, while the enemy has a perfect view on you and your numbers.

They did what was the best choice for the situation. They reorganized when they were able to and turned back to retrieve the driver.

[Dago]

Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Dago, don't tell me not to second guess the troops.  Whats your credentials?  Do you think that going through boot-camp and AIT school makes these national guard soldiers elite killing machines?  Shoot, before the second gulf war, and all through the 90s, I had only heard about how horrible the training and combat readiness of National Guard units were.  

I did not see a single RPG fired in this ambush.  None were fired during the initial assault, none were fired at the defenseless trucks.  The debate here is not whether a humvee could withstand a RPG hit (yes, they have before).  The debate is why the truckers were left for 45 minutes, when I can name several battles in which convoys came under attack from machine guns and rpgs, and people were rescued from disabled vehicles due to the heroism of soldiers.

I usually reserve my harsh comments from this board, but you are acting like a complete jerk.   Did you happen to notice a truck overturned from the ambush?  Do you think that was done by a AK47?

Do you have a clue???

If you're such a brave heroic badass, I am sure the Army will welcome you into the fold and be happy to send you over to Iraq to prove your bravery.

And if you haven't been there, nor have all the facts of that situation, you only make yourself look foolish in your rush to judge.

[moot]

AWwww Jesus!

rather, not..

Is it legally difficult to carry a gun over there, as a civilian, and as contractor?

[AquaShrimp]

Convoy counter-ambush tactics:

1. Drivers attempt to drive through the killing
zone.

2. Personnel return fire immediately.

3. When vehicles are clear of the killing zone, they
are halted. Occupants dismount and take immediate
offensive action against the enemy positions.

4. Subsequent vehicles approaching the killing
zone halt short of the zone. Occupants debark and take
immediate offensive action against the enemy
positions.

-If hardened vehicles halt in the
killing zone, all available weapons are used to return
fire immediately.

-On the first perceptible slackening of enemy fire,
occupants dismount.

-After dismounting, if no cover is available, an
immediate frontal assault against the enemy is employed.


http://compass.seacadets.org/pdf/nrtc/cb2/14235_ch5.pdf#search=%22counter%20ambush%20convoy%20tactic%22

[Banzzai]

Oh to be an armchair General!!!

in every armed forces in the world the actions on ambush are the same
1. Return fire & lay down covering fire

2. Clear the killing zone if possible ASAP

3. regroup

4. counterattack

these guy's did everything by book


and if anyone says otherwise
sign up for 6 months try it yourself

[AquaShrimp]

Found this while reading more about the convoy attack.

... I was at the base that convoy was heading to, Camp McKenzie, now closed. The Army escorts DID NOT FIRE BACK! They pulled their crew served weapons into their armored Humvees and waited for the QRF to arrive. One of the Sergeants in the QRF told me this and it was corroborated by several other NCO's on the QRF. The Army convoy commander had never been to McKenzie and got lost. There is a cardinal rule when heading to McKenzie, "Never turn south onto the Al Jabouri Peninsula". There is no place to turn around, it's a dead end and it's full of Sunni insurgents. Nobody at McKenzie, either KBR or the Army knew this convoy was coming! If that had been known, the Army unit stationed there would have been in the town, guiding them through and providing a protective overwatch. The name of the town is not Samarra, it's Ad Duluiyah and it's a hell hole. Don't blame Halliburton or KBR, they go where the Army tells them to go. Blame poor leadership and incompetence on the Army's part. Halliburton and KBR care deeply about their employees. The KBR driver at the rear without a trailer was driving up and down the road trying to distract and run over any insurgents attacking his convoy. You want a hero? He's the one.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/09/army_responds_t.html

[fd ski]

The sign "Mission Accomplished" was hung on the deck of the carrier that Bush visited when it was returning from Iraq war service. It was a fact that the mission the carrier was assigned was accomplished, and that is all it referred to.

Excellent.

In actuality you got that wrong. It was for little bowsanmate Suzy who has been trying to get pregnant for 2 week on that CV and she finally made it !!!


WTG SUZY !!! MISSION ACCOMPLISED !!!

[Suave]

Maybe KBR should've used their own people to provide security.

http://media.pbs.org/asxgen/general/windows/media4/frontline/2315/windows/ch1_hi.wmv.asx

Go to 8:30 into the video to see how they train to respond to a convoy  vehicle being disabled in an ambush.

[storch]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
The transformation is complete. From someone who understood politics to a school teacher. I'm betting you don't tip either.

this guy teaches school?  that's one of the reasons my kids were all home schooled.

[Goth]

Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Found this while reading more about the convoy attack.



http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/09/army_responds_t.html

Thanks for the quote from someone who registered on the abc boards as jo mama, another armchair general like yourself.  

You have no proven credentials to make any statements about this attack, nor have you any learned experience. Do us a favor, if you think you could do better I can recommend a recruiter you can talk to. Until you pony up, please don't speak of which you know nothing.