Author Topic: Why I care about religion  (Read 8422 times)

Offline AWMac

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Why I care about religion
« Reply #345 on: August 20, 2007, 02:22:58 PM »
Point taken.
TY Mark
Mac

Offline lazs2

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Why I care about religion
« Reply #346 on: August 20, 2007, 02:24:21 PM »
chair said.... "I've asked one question repeatedly, but mysteriously, lazs has never bothered to answer it. I'll try again:

Lazs: Is believing that the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus don't exist 'intellectually dishonest'? If not, what's the difference?"


chair...  I have answered this question a half a dozen times for you... but here goes again.

If you believe that the easter bunny or santa clause probly don't exist then you are agnostic and pretty reasonable.

If you say that it is impossible that any bunny anywhere has ever hidden chicken eggs or that any bearded fat guy has ever delivered presents to strangers then..  you are believing such on pure faith and with an agenda....

If you claim otherwise then you are dishonest.


you example hoists you on your own petard.    Not only that but I bet their are other things like aliens of esp or whatever that you believe on simple faith.

so yes... it is intellectually dishonest to say that you have no agenda if you claim that it is impossible for a bunny somewhere to hide chicken eggs.   It would be honest to simply say that as far as you know this is not true and that you doubt it.

lazs

Offline swoose

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Why I care about religion
« Reply #347 on: August 20, 2007, 02:30:07 PM »
Mac,
 Check your pm.
Swoose

Offline Tachus

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« Reply #348 on: August 20, 2007, 02:36:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy


Actually the number of evangelicals in this country has dropped to about 9% (So I'm in the minority, a few more "bad" years, and even atheist will out number us.) The number of "Born Again" believers is about 33%. (Of which evangelicals are a sub-set)

But, on to the more important stuff.

What so many people fail to see in the church, and outside of the church is something I believe we can agree on Chairboy.

When a country begins to strip away the rights of its citizens. The majority often stands and cheers, without the understanding, that a day may come when they find themselves in the minority. I don't want to strip away your rights, for the same reason you don't want to strip away mine. Because some day, we may find our positions reversed.

If you live in a state where you cannot hold office because you don't believe in God, then I would oppose that law. (I might not vote for you, but I would not deny your right to run) If you wish to raise your children as atheist, then that is your right, and I would defend it. At the same time I want to exercise my right to raise my children as Christians.
Whether our money says "In God We Trust" or not, makes no never mind to me. I don't have an issue with it being there, and won't lose much sleep if they remove. Would I like to live in a country that was "more" Christian, sure I would. However, I would like to see that happen by choice, and NEVER by legislation.

"Religious" people do some valid concerns . They don't want to loose the right to teach their children. (Nor have their teaching undermined by public schools.) Churches don't want to be forced to hire people that do not hold the same moral standards, and beliefs.

In the end, I want liberty, not just for me, but for you also. I do not want to be oppressed, nor do I seek to oppress. I am convinced without the slightest doubt I right and your wrong about what we hold to be true, but that's beside the point. (At least for the purpose of this discussion.) As far as "Rights" go, I do not want to be denied, and don't want yours denied either.

I don't expect special rights, and I don't expect you to receive any either.
I refuse to have my right to free speech taken away, and I would refuse to stand idly by while your's was.

I think we can also agree on this next point, and it is a sad one. Both sides have those that are rigorously attacking the other. Sadly, it is not enough that some have the "right" to be an atheist, they openly attack religion, and often specifically target Christianity. They blame the ills of the world on religion, and it seems if they were to have their way, they would end it all. The same is true of the other side. They believe "you" are the problem, and we need to get rid of you. It's too bad, things will most likely never change. (Well not until we are all dead, and sun grows cold, and the earth freezes in utter darkness. "If you're right" Or Christ returns and restores His creation to its original glory and perfection. "If I'm right")

Best regards,
--Tachus

Offline Tachus

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« Reply #349 on: August 20, 2007, 02:49:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SkyRock
Someone had a problem with it not being on ther too, maybe they should have left.  The point being, as long as we allow religion to be enacted as laws, then whatever the majority religion at the time, will make the laws to satisfy their faith.  I would rather take faith out of the system altogether and lets set a course based on what we know to be true.  Would you be happy if it said, "In Allah we trust"?  Maybe "In Buddah we trust"?  Even, "In Satan we trust"?  


How about just good ole, "One Cent".    mark



The issue of removing "faith" altogether is a difficult one, and would present a number of difficulties. Also, enacting laws based on "What we know to be true" is a real problem.

Here's why. What exactly, do you know to be true? What basis do you have for that? If you say, it's what the majority sees as acceptable, then that will change, just like the prevailing religion could change.

Our country "Knew" slavery was alright in the past, but we "Know" it's not today. Some countries "Know" prostitution is ok, but ours doesn't "Know" it. Some countries "Know" women shouldn't vote, but we "Know" they should. This list goes on and on. So is what we "know" more valid that what they "know"


My point is, it's easy to say, but not easy to do.

Best regards,
--Tachus

Offline AWMac

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Why I care about religion
« Reply #350 on: August 20, 2007, 02:52:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by swoose
Mac,
 Check your pm.
Swoose


Relied.

Mac

Offline Tachus

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Why I care about religion
« Reply #351 on: August 20, 2007, 03:15:29 PM »
One more thought about "Proof" and accepting things on faith. As I mentioned a few posts ago, we all do this at different times.

All of you that have read my posts here in this thread, have accepted a number of things concerning me on "Faith" (If we define "Faith" as believing something you can't prove.)

If you believed, me to be human, you have done so on Faith. You have no reason to believe I'm human, outside of the fact, that everyone you know that posts on BB are human. Yet you haven't seen me, it would be difficult for you to "Prove" one way of the other that I am. However, you have accepted it. (You drew a conclusion, based on your knowledge, experiences and the observable facts; but you have "Proved" nothing.) I could be an alien, or a chimp for all you know. (A very intelligent Chimp of course :) )

Not only did you believe I was human you believed I was "Alive" I could be dead, you really don't know, you simply have drawn a conclusion based on the same factors I mentioned above. I could be some form of Artificial Intelligence, you don't really know, you have accepted the fact that I'm alive on "Faith" (Again, if we define "Faith" as believing something you can't prove.)

In fact you can't prove I'm not an alien, all you can do is ask me to prove that I am. (All you can do is believe me, refuse to believe, or refuse to make a decision.)
Again, my point is, drawing a conclusion about something based on our knowledge, our experiences, and our observations of the evidence, is not irrational, it is a part of everyday life.

Best regards,
--Tachus
« Last Edit: August 20, 2007, 03:20:39 PM by Tachus »

Offline indy007

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Why I care about religion
« Reply #352 on: August 20, 2007, 03:51:35 PM »
Tachus, it doesn't take much effort to track somebody down across the internet and prove they're human. No offense, but that may just be the weaknest analogy I've ever seen.

Offline Viking

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« Reply #353 on: August 20, 2007, 03:57:58 PM »
AWMac, you'd better hope there's no God, because otherwise you're going to Hell for what you did to Chairboy. Your comment on his brother was evil and unnecessary.

Offline Tachus

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« Reply #354 on: August 20, 2007, 04:13:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by indy007
Tachus, it doesn't take much effort to track somebody down across the internet and prove they're human. No offense, but that may just be the weaknest analogy I've ever seen.


The point is, you accept the fact that I am, and almost certainly could not be convinced otherwise, without ever tracking me down. Not based on "Proof", but based on the factors I listed in my post. So you believe something that has not been proven.

Also you can't prove I'm human, even if I'm standing in the same room with you. (Although you could prove I'm not a chimp, but you couldn't prove I'm not an alien.)

Yes, of course you can check my DNA, so does that really "Prove" I'm human. We assume things, accept things, believe things, without "Proof"

Prove to me, that life (what you call Human) didn't start somewhere else. I don't believe it did, I'm guessing you don't' believe it did, and it seems unreasonable to me for someone to believe it did, but you can't "Prove" it, one way of the other. Thus, my point you can't prove, I'm human. (At least not in the sense that you assume that I am.)

So, we all "believe" things, which have not been "Proven", and somethings that cannot be "Proven" that is not (in and of itself) irrational. It is in fact a part of life

Best regards,
--Tachus

Offline SkyRock

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Why I care about religion
« Reply #355 on: August 20, 2007, 04:22:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tachus
What exactly, do you know to be true? What basis do you have for that? --Tachus



Well, we can only do what we as humans are capable of doing when it comes to "knowing" anything.  We form a set of principles or standards of evaluation to determine, something that is the case, and/or something that actually exists.  The outcomes of these evaluations must be in agreement with fact or reality.  "Knowing" still poses many problems between the believers and non-believers, which is the case in most "religions".  Hence the need for a system of standards in which to base knowledge that is, as best as humans can do, considered to be "fact".  Given the history of mankind, it is and always will be unwise to confuse fact with faith or, even in the slightest, to give faith equal weight when building a database of knowledge for the posterity of mankind.

Triton28 - "...his stats suggest he has a healthy combination of suck and sissy!"

Offline AWMac

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Why I care about religion
« Reply #356 on: August 20, 2007, 04:39:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
AWMac, you'd better hope there's no God, because otherwise you're going to Hell for what you did to Chairboy. Your comment on his brother was evil and unnecessary.


Viking

Read my posts Son.

I stated a date, no mention to his Brother.  Just a Global event. Now get yer watermelon straight.  Read, just don't comment!

Bud there is a GOD and you are in no position to tell me if I'm going to Hell or not.

Read before you post.

Mac

BTW .....


IN
« Last Edit: August 20, 2007, 04:41:27 PM by AWMac »

Offline Viking

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Why I care about religion
« Reply #357 on: August 20, 2007, 04:39:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tachus
The point is, you accept the fact that I am, and almost certainly could not be convinced otherwise, without ever tracking me down. Not based on "Proof", but based on the factors I listed in my post. So you believe something that has not been proven.


There’s lots of proof that you’re a human. You’re communicating with me in a way typical of humans. I have yet to see a “bot” on these forums, and at least no “bot” that expresses opinions like you do, so I have no reason to assume you are a “bot”. Also I have never met or communicated with other entities that can communicate the way humans do. My conclusion is that you are human, and it is a belief yes, but not faith. Faith is “firm belief in something for which there is no proof”.


Quote
Originally posted by Tachus
Also you can't prove I'm human, even if I'm standing in the same room with you. (Although you could prove I'm not a chimp, but you couldn't prove I'm not an alien.)

Yes, of course you can check my DNA, so does that really "Prove" I'm human. We assume things, accept things, believe things, without "Proof"

Prove to me, that life (what you call Human) didn't start somewhere else. I don't believe it did, I'm guessing you don't' believe it did, and it seems unreasonable to me for someone to believe it did, but you can't "Prove" it, one way of the other. Thus, my point you can't prove, I'm human. (At least not in the sense that you assume that I am.)
 


Yes I could prove you’re a human using the methods you describe. Whether you are from Earth or some other place in the universe is irrelevant to the definition of you being human or not.

Offline Viking

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Why I care about religion
« Reply #358 on: August 20, 2007, 04:41:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AWMac
Viking

Read my posts Son.

I stated a date, no mention to his Brother.  

Bud there is a GOD and you are in no position to tell me if I'm going to Hell or not.

Read before you post crap.

Mac



No mention to his brother?


Quote
Originally posted by AWMac
I find it very hard to believe Chairboy that you didn't pray once after the Dec 26th 2004 Tsunami yet you had all of us in here praying for your Brother.

Get Real Man.

Mac



You're a liar. And what you did was evil and unnecessary.

Offline AWMac

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Why I care about religion
« Reply #359 on: August 20, 2007, 04:43:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
No mention to his brother?


 


You're a liar. And what you did was evil and unnecessary.


Pick and choose what you want to comment on... read ALL of the post before you reply.

A Liar?  A lil harsh don't you think?