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Author Topic: so long habeus corpus.  (Read 5956 times)

Offline Shamus

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so long habeus corpus.
« Reply #195 on: October 21, 2006, 02:03:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lukster
The bill of rights is nothing more than the first ten amdendments to the Constitution. I have pointed out that while legal resident aliens are protected by our laws they do not enjoy all of the privleges our Constitution provides to citizens.


First off, they are not privleges, they are rights, and I am not saying that resident aliens have all the rights of citizens. I am saying that historicaly they have been accorded the rights provided by the Bill of Rights. That seems to be under attack now..that is my beef.

shamus
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Offline JB88

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so long habeus corpus.
« Reply #196 on: October 21, 2006, 02:07:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shamus
First off, they are not privleges, they are rights...

shamus


amen.

inalienable at that.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2006, 02:15:14 PM by JB88 »
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To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

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Offline x0847Marine

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so long habeus corpus.
« Reply #197 on: October 21, 2006, 03:00:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by oboe
I think you guys are missing a critical phrase of the act.   It doesn't matter what the detainee's status is - alien, citizen, combatant legal or illegal.   As long as their classification is "awaiting determination" they can be held indefinitely.    Essentially, the Writ of Habeas Corpus is gone for everybody.

Not trying to be a fear-monger, but it strikes me as a potentially dangerous situation which could lead to abuses.   Obviously, the Founding Fathers recognized such peril and that is why our Constitution specifically prohibits suspension of the Writ.


This was written by lawyers "loop holes" built in...  It used to be "criminal goes free because of legal loop hole", well now its "citizen goes to jail because of loop hole".

Anyone here can be picked up, held, denied a lawyer or access to judge.. all while "awaiting determination" on your status. If it takes 6 months, oh well... you have ZERO recourse, none, zilch, nada, you lose, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

Technically every illegal alien caught at the border could be held indefinitely while "awaiting determination". Whos hungry?, Soylent green anyone?

Oh wait, this makes us safer... now I get it. Meanwhile, DAILY, an average of 3000 possible terrorists, criminals, gang members and grape pickers moon walk across the Mexican border laughing at what suckers we are. One minutemen dude made a movie as he walked across the border and delivered a simulated WMD in a backpack to some state building.

When given power like this, the government has always abused it... why will this be any different?
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Offline x0847Marine

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so long habeus corpus.
« Reply #198 on: October 21, 2006, 03:17:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by bsdaddict


second point I’d like to make, especially to you die-hard Republicans, is this: How in the hell are you supposed to prove you’re NOT an unlawful enemy combatant if you’re locked up and kept incommunicado for a period of time and without means to defend yourself?


Govt: "Let me see your papers"
Citizen:
Govt: "These look fake, come with us while we determine your status"
Citizen: "I want to call my lawyer"
Govt: "You vill shtun ze mouth, NOW!"
Citizen: "Bummer"



1930's Germany, or 2006 USA
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Offline bsdaddict

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so long habeus corpus.
« Reply #199 on: October 21, 2006, 03:31:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by x0847Marine
Govt: "Let me see your papers"
Citizen:
Govt: "These look fake, come with us while we determine your status"
Citizen: "I want to call my lawyer"
Govt: "You vill shtun ze mouth, NOW!"
Citizen: "Bummer"



1930's Germany, or 2006 USA


sure seems like it's going to come to that.  them even having the discretion to hold someone indefinately is BAD.
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Offline Eagler

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so long habeus corpus.
« Reply #200 on: October 21, 2006, 03:31:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by x0847Marine
1930's Germany, or 2006 USA


if you don't know the difference, no one will able to show it to you either ...
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Offline bsdaddict

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so long habeus corpus.
« Reply #201 on: October 21, 2006, 03:32:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
if you don't know the difference, no one will able to show it to you either ...


we may not quite be there yet, but if you done see the parallels you're effing blind.
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Offline JB88

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so long habeus corpus.
« Reply #202 on: October 21, 2006, 03:33:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by bsdaddict
we may not quite be there yet, but if you done see the parallels you're effing blind.


or secretly overjoyed maybe?
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Offline RedRadr

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so long habeus corpus.
« Reply #203 on: October 21, 2006, 03:41:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by bsdaddict
so many things wrong with the MCA. First of all, it’s blatantly unconstitutional.



        affirmative action is blantantly unconstitutional, but there it is...
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Offline bsdaddict

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so long habeus corpus.
« Reply #204 on: October 21, 2006, 03:41:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by RedRadr
Quote
Originally posted by bsdaddict
so many things wrong with the MCA. First of all, it’s blatantly unconstitutional.



        affirmative action is blantantly unconstitutional, but there it is...


your point?
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Offline john9001

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so long habeus corpus.
« Reply #205 on: October 21, 2006, 03:48:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by bsdaddict
your point?

if you don't know the difference, no one will able to show it to you either ...:lol
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Offline bsdaddict

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so long habeus corpus.
« Reply #206 on: October 21, 2006, 03:56:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
if you don't know the difference, no one will able to show it to you either ...:lol


please...  I see distinctions, but as to why he's bringing it up I'm in the dark.  Only thing I can infer is he's saying one unconstitutional policy is legitimized by the existance of other unconstitutional policies.  That arguement is so assinine that I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and giving him the opportunity to clarify his point.
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Offline lukster

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so long habeus corpus.
« Reply #207 on: October 21, 2006, 04:15:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by bsdaddict
we may not quite be there yet, but if you done see the parallels you're effing blind.


All the more reason to vote out the socialists. We do not want to go tjhe way of Socialist Germany (nazi to you).
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Offline Urchin

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so long habeus corpus.
« Reply #208 on: October 21, 2006, 04:45:30 PM »
Yea, because the dirty socialists are the ones setting up a police state.
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Offline lukster

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so long habeus corpus.
« Reply #209 on: October 21, 2006, 04:49:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Urchin
Yea, because the dirty socialists are the ones setting up a police state.


They certainly did in Germany. They appear to have mellowed since what with the nannny state but I suspect that if push comes to shove this can be quickly converted into a police state.
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