Author Topic: so long habeus corpus. (Read 7261 times)

bsdaddict · « **Reply #225 on:** October 22, 2006, 11:55:11 AM »

keep telling yourself that...

Yeager · « **Reply #226 on:** October 22, 2006, 12:13:04 PM »

sounds about right to me.....

lukster · « **Reply #227 on:** October 22, 2006, 01:19:43 PM »

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Originally posted by bsdaddict
Our next president will probably be a Democrat.

Think about that for a minute. Many republicans didn't vote or voted for Bush only to keep the democrat choices out of power. If the republicans can come up with someone the republicans really like it will probably be a landslide.

Eagler · « **Reply #228 on:** October 22, 2006, 01:30:24 PM »

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Originally posted by x0847Marine
In the loop hole I provided, where your 'papers' are suspect and you can be locked up without due process until they decide your status, its that more like the USA, or Nazi Germany?

Another loop hole big enough to drive through; how many of you can "prove" you're a US citizen at any given time of the day? What standard of proof will the Gov use?, oh never mind.. whatever standard they want....

yes, it must be happening daily or otherwise we wouldn't be seeing these poor souls paraded in front of your tele during the evening news by the bush hating - we start for nothing, and have zero plans for anything, but looky at this scandal - dumbarsecrats .. yeah, I must see half a dozen a week .. how many do you know of? pls don't count the losers they snagged out of afganhastan or Iraq and are now rotting in gitmo as I can't feel anything for them ...

bsdaddict · « **Reply #229 on:** October 22, 2006, 01:42:05 PM »

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Originally posted by Eagler
yes, it must be happening daily or otherwise we wouldn't be seeing these poor souls paraded in front of your tele during the evening news by the bush hating - we start for nothing, and have zero plans for anything, but looky at this scandal - dumbarsecrats .. yeah, I must see half a dozen a week .. how many do you know of? pls don't count the losers they snagged out of afganhastan or Iraq and are now rotting in gitmo as I can't feel anything for them ...

dude, the act just got passed. give it time. if Bush doesn't abuse this power then then next pres might, or the next, or the next. The crux of the matter is that it's an unconstitutional power for ANY president to have.

Mace2004 · « **Reply #230 on:** October 22, 2006, 01:54:25 PM »

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Originally posted by x0847Marine
In the loop hole I provided, where your 'papers' are suspect and you can be locked up without due process until they decide your status, its that more like the USA, or Nazi Germany?

Another loop hole big enough to drive through; how many of you can "prove" you're a US citizen at any given time of the day? What standard of proof will the Gov use?, oh never mind.. whatever standard they want.

Even a regular old retired cop like me can see these mile wide loop hole in this law, but clever DOJ / military lawyers will find dozens more you folks cant even imagine... and there's no way to petition the courts to challenge it.

Your right to challenge the Gov in court when locked up is what used to separate us from 1930s Germany... now we're one step close to yesteryear.

So this is a "loophole"? Sorta like not requiring identification before allowing someone to vote? I have no problem at all proving who I am. Driver's license, Birth Certificate, SS#, Military ID, Home Mortgage, etc., etc., etc.

Also, you've obviously never dealt with "clever DOJ/military lawyers". For most of what we (the DoD) have tried to do in an attempt to win the war has been impeded by lawyers, not helped. Every plan we come up with is reviewed ad-nausium by lawyers who's knee-jerk reaction is no. Why? Not because it's illegal, but because if the "secret plans" were "leaked" (yeah, I know, that'd never happen) what we want to do would be "spun" by the "loyal" opposition in exactly the same way as this Habeus Corpus thing has been.

Quote

Originally posted by bsdaddict
dude, the act just got passed. give it time. if Bush doesn't abuse this power then then next pres might, or the next, or the next. The crux of the matter is that it's an unconstitutional power for ANY president to have.

This is not and never has been unconstitutional. It's NOT unconstitutional to deny Habeus Corpus to either Legal or Illegal Enemy Combatants. As a matter of fact, it's good that the Congress is finally feeling it's oats with regard to reining in the Courts who keep grabbing more and more power to themselves. This is exactly what the Constitution calls for to redress power grabs by one of the three branches.

Yeager · « **Reply #231 on:** October 22, 2006, 02:00:45 PM »

The crux of the matter is that it's an unconstitutional power
====
You have the power to decide this? or is this a guess on your part? Did some talking head on CNN "educate" you on the issue?

bsdaddict · « **Reply #232 on:** October 22, 2006, 02:06:51 PM »

I certainly don't expect to change the minds of you die-hard republicans. Of course you don't see a problem with this, The GOP has been raping the constitution for decades and you've been ok with it.

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I have no problem at all proving who I am. Driver's license, Birth Certificate, SS#, Military ID, Home Mortgage, etc., etc., etc.

goes to prove a fundamental difference between you and I. I DO see a problem with having to prove who I am. You just bend over and figure they're not bothering me, why should I worry.

bj229r · « **Reply #233 on:** October 22, 2006, 02:35:39 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by bsdaddict
I certainly don't expect to change the minds of you die-hard republicans. Of course you don't see a problem with this, The GOP has been raping the constitution for decades and you've been ok with it.

goes to prove a fundamental difference between you and I. I do see a problem with having to prove who I am. You just bend over and figure they're not bothering me, why should I worry.

What heinous things has the GOP done to the constitution?

bsdaddict · « **Reply #234 on:** October 22, 2006, 02:44:31 PM »

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Originally posted by bj229r
What heinous things has the GOP done to the constitution?

how far back do you want me to go?

john9001 · « **Reply #235 on:** October 22, 2006, 03:40:11 PM »

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Originally posted by bsdaddict
how far back do you want me to go?

WOW, really? i never knew they did all that.

bsdaddict · « **Reply #236 on:** October 22, 2006, 03:56:00 PM »

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Originally posted by john9001
WOW, really? i never knew they did all that.

I was waiting to see how far back he wanted me to go, but since you seem anxious here's the obvious recent stuff...

patriot act
real ID
Military Comissions Act
wiretapping

Shuckins · « **Reply #237 on:** October 22, 2006, 04:49:54 PM »

Ahh....there's nothing like starry-eyed idealism...unaffected by reality and firmly convinced of its own moral superiority. To that mentality, no foreign threat could be as dangerous as a government dominated by a political party founded on corporate wealth wrenched from an oppressed proletariate, and led by child molestors, war-mongers, religious demagogues, and gun-toting, right-wing militia racists.

Oh...for a return to enlightened rule and the politics of compassion and kissy-face diplomacy.

Pardon me if I give offence. I've got to put my old dog down tomorrow and I'm feeling a little surly. I have little patience with election-year political posturing and mountain-in-a-molehill the sky-is-falling crisis mongering.

Quite frankly, I hope the democrats do wrest control of Congress from the Republicans. A few years of their rule-making is just what middle-American needs to remind itself of why they voted the dems out of office in 1994.

If there were any real justice in the world...the attack of 911 should have taken place in 1995....so that master of international politics then occupying the White House could have finessed us through the entire thing.

bj229r · « **Reply #238 on:** October 22, 2006, 05:28:23 PM »

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Originally posted by bsdaddict
I was waiting to see how far back he wanted me to go, but since you seem anxious here's the obvious recent stuff...

patriot act
real ID
Military Comissions Act
wiretapping

All those items have been signed off by more than the 30 seat majority the GOP has in the House. Congress (what is "Real ID? not heard of that one), and none is directed at US Citizens, unless they are trying to blow up a skyscraper--anyway...you mentioned DECADES, and all the afore-mentioned items ares since 9/11?

(btw, here are a few REAL changes to our constitution that WERENT done by the Gop:

"Anchor baby" The Immigration and Nationality Services Act of 1965, pushed through by Democrats, creates US citizens out of Mexican families who sneak across the border right before the mother cranks out a pup. I think THAT has affected us a wee bit

Abortion--Dems couldnt get it through via the democratic process, so the liberal-heavy Supreme Court did it in 197..3?

Gay marriage== didn't get through via Congress, and a number of liberal judges keep finding rights buried in the Constitution which allow this (as well as over-riding VOTED in bans in various municipalities)

Busing--(again, liberal-heavy courts) decided that white kids from the burbs had to be sent into ghettos for school because their great-great grandfathers may have been racist slave owners. EVERYbody hated that one, including most of the black kids

Mace2004 · « **Reply #239 on:** October 22, 2006, 05:49:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by bsdaddict
I certainly don't expect to change the minds of you die-hard republicans. Of course you don't see a problem with this, The GOP has been raping the constitution for decades and you've been ok with it.

goes to prove a fundamental difference between you and I. I DO see a problem with having to prove who I am. You just bend over and figure they're not bothering me, why should I worry.

My point is that I have no difficulty in proving who I am should I have to. If I want to vote, if I commit a crime, if I want a credit card, if I want to cross international borders, etc., etc., I believe there is a reasonable justification to ask someone to identify themselves.

I suppose that even you might ask for someone else to identify themselves? What if someone came to your house and asked to come in? Would asking for some proof if identity be forcing that person to "bend over" or don't you carry this "right to not identify yourself" that far? Is it only you that should never have to identify yourself or are there others? How about that guy hanging around outside your house at 3am, should the police have the authority to force him to identify himself? Should you have to prove your identity to vote? How about taking out a loan? or do you just do that in someone elses name? (sure makes repayment easy). My point is, identity is important but it is not a secret.