Author Topic: 109 suggestions (Read 1208 times)

porkfrog · « **on:** November 30, 2006, 02:15:26 PM »

after 10 months of playing AH, i've decided to give the 109 a real go. so far i like the 109F (turns like a dream), and the g2/g6 (considerably faster than the F, doesnt turn as good). Creton explained to me that the 109 is a nose up fitr. keep keeping the nose up and work the stall fight. which has been working great, against most planes for me so far, except other 109s and Hurricanes. betty and i were going it something serious last night, with me in the g6, and her in a Hurri D, and while I couldn't quite shake her, the fight remained mostly balanced. here's the problem... when i get into a fight in the 109, i'm getting picked alot. thats mostly my fault and has to due with my SA. the part i can't figure out how to fix is my gunnery. when i do get the advantage, it takes me forever if not never, to get a plane to go down. i was shredding this 38 up last night, with every possible thing on his plane leaking, missing, you name it, but b4 i could finish kill someone blew thru and finished him off and i ended up with assist. i am getting assist after assist after assist for every 1 kill.

summary...

i get solution, cant shoot them down b4 getting picked.

i get solution, my own team picks them down b4 i finish kill, leaving me with an assist.

any suggestions? i dropped my converg down from 275 to 225 and it seems to be helping a little.

thanks in advance.

Mace2004 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 30, 2006, 03:14:34 PM »

Well, first of all regarding your SA. You need to develop a little clock in your head that tells you to take a quick scan around every three or four seconds, regardless of how comfortable you are that there are no other threats. NME fighters can close awfully fast when you're in a knife fight and boresighted on another NME. Also, try to maintain a good idea of your physical location so that you know the most likely avenue of approach for a 2nd NME and which way to work the fight (push or drag the fight closer to friends). The guy that's gonna get you first is the guy coming from high so take particular care to check high, not just on your six. Film your fights and then select the "use recorded views" option in film viewer and see how often you really check around, you'll probably find your spending most of your time boresighted on the target.

This is real obvious but lots don't think about it. Before starting your flight go to the off-line arena and just practice gunnery on the drones for 10 minutes. Get high and do a diving forward qtr attack on them and you can set up some good high track crossing angles and rates to practice your lead and timing. You do that every time and your marksmanship will markedly improve. I'm a fairly decent shot but still do this occasionally to refresh the correct "sight picture" in my mind.

Getting alot of assists is not a surprise for a 109. You typically have only one 20mm and lousy over the nose visibility so pulling sufficient lead for the 20mm against a turning target is tough. When you think you're really nailing the guy you're probably just hitting with MG and two MG just doesn't do alot to the tougher planes like the Hurricane and any Grumman. When you do your off-line warmup fire either MG or cannon rather than both and you'll see the difference in impact points and lead required. If you really want to make sure you're getting a kill shot then get close enough to fill the windscreen with NME fighter and let loose. Also, if you happen to have TrackIR, slide to the side and drop one wing a bit so you can keep sight while setting up your lead. The 109 isn't great for doing this since it has a lot of large canopy bows in front of you, even when you slide to the side, but it's better than trying to get enough lead by looking over the nose.

porkfrog · « **Reply #2 on:** November 30, 2006, 03:28:48 PM »

ok, sounds great. 2 questions...

what's a high track crossing angle?

and

what's TrackIR?

Mace2004 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 30, 2006, 03:47:57 PM »

Sorry dude.

High track crossing angle means that the angle between your flight paths is large. Imagine approaching a road intersection where your target is on the crossing street and he crosses in front of you. To shoot him you'd have to shoot in front of him (i.e., pull lead). High track crossing rate means he's going 100mph when he blows by and you'd need even more lead.

TrackIR is a device that lets you look around by moving your head instead of using the POV hat switch. Link here. Lots of guys on AH (including me) are using it.

Creton · « **Reply #4 on:** November 30, 2006, 06:19:59 PM »

Here are some of the duels and films I've posted this month regarding 109's.

Recently I dueled Killnu in 109's,these are the fights we had and I hope that theyre informative.As you can and will see I was lucky more than once.
Killnu is a very accomplished flier and I thouroughly enjoyed these duels.

Killnu!!!!

I appended all the fights to help with download.

Please feel free to critique them and if you need a film hosted please let me or "Domin"our site admin. know.\

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/killnu.ahf

Here are the films of Snaphook and myself dueling last evening.
Hope you enjoy and please feel free to critique them.

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/helicopter5.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/helicopter6.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/snaphook1.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/snaphook2.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/snaphook3.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/snaphook4.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/snaphook5.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/snaphook6.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/snaphook7.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/snaphook8.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/snaphook9.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/snaphook10.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/snaphook11.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/snaphook12.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/snaphook13.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/snaphook14.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/snaphook15.ahf

Here's one that Snaphook posted about our fights.

We finally got a chance to spend some time in the DA/TA....a whole bunch of clips. Won a few lost more then a few and had a blast. Easily the best 109 angles fighter I've ever run into.....

I'll sort thru and post the few that were the most fun (and not completely embarrassing). This is the last set in the TA and probably reasonably representative overall. It's tough to tell in the TA since you dont die but he certainly landed more lead then I did....

The last fight shows a move he has that totally baffles me since he seems to be able to repeat it at will. He easily converted to what I came to call the "helicopter tail slide" anytime I did manage to force the overshoot. Definately something i'm going to try and learn.....

http://www.az-dsl.com/snaphook/Creton/Ibeenschooled.ahf

Here are some films of some of the duels I've had recently.
Feel free to critique these and if you need any films hosted please contact myself or "DOMIN" who is our website admin.

Here's one my favorites.

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/2f4uvsk4.ahf

Here are just some of the challenges that have ben extended to my poor undermodeled 109

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/f4uvsg2.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/f4uvsg22.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/f4uvsg23.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/f4uvsk4.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/f4uvsk42.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/f4uvsk43.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/f4uvsk44.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/f4uvsk45.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/f4uvsk46.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/f4uvsk47.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/f4uvsk48.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/f4uvsk49.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/f4uvsk410.ahf

I was dueling "PARIN" ,who I feel is very accomplished in a 109.He was explaining the "Hartman Escape " move to me,when after a few duels we went into the scissors and he tried the move on me.I found the move slightly difficult to follow because of not be familiar with it.I just chopped the throttle and waited for him to complete the move.

Please notice his move at 1:56-1:58 of the film.

Parin,very nice flying and fighting,and I was more than lucky several times to win the engagement.

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/parin5.ahf

Here are some duels I've had against the P-38 while in my 109.Some I win some I lose and some I just get plain ole lucky.Some of these have been posted before ,some have not.

Also for those who are curious about E-fighting vs angles fighting ,Arial does a great job of mantaining alt and E when dueling,I found this to be some what to my disadvantage as I have a tendency to blow E for angles and then I had to try to recover from the lower position.

Please feel free to critique and if you need any films hosted ,contact myself or "DOMIN" our site admin.

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/pawsvsk4.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/pawsvsk42.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/pawsvsk43.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/arial38vsk4.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/arialvsk42.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/arielvsk43.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/arialvsk44.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/38vsk4.ahf

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Damionte · « **Reply #5 on:** November 30, 2006, 06:22:39 PM »

Oh man that trackIR thing is HOT !!

It's like Hansel !!

Xasthur · « **Reply #6 on:** November 30, 2006, 07:34:52 PM »

As someone earlier said with the pouring round after round into an enemy with no result.... most likely cause is the MGs doing all the hitting.

Try flying the K4 for a while.

You will need to learn how to use that 30mm (and it will take time, i'm working with it now and starting to get satisfying results)

The 65 rpg makes it very unforgiving of poor gunnery, but if you get in real close (200 or less) and snap off a couple of 30mm rounds, sit back and watch the the wings fall off.

Don't both with the MGs too much.. I find them best for keeping an enemy turning to evade your fire (thus losing E and allowing you to turn inside them, sneak up behind and put some 30mm into them)

Keep in mind though, the 30mm has VERY different ballistics.... the rounds are much slower to get to their target (i find anyway, i don't know what the actual velocity is), so you'll need to allow more lead and shoot from closer in.

Creton · « **Reply #7 on:** November 30, 2006, 08:00:20 PM »

Fire all your guns at same time,believe me it yields the best results,and by no means fire if over 400,at least not until your profieccient in the "tater" gun.
Set you convergence at 150 and learn to get the quick snap shots.

As you know I fly the 109's nearly exclusively and land multiple kills many times in a night.Most people who fly the 109's really have no idea how to turn fight in the plane and merely bnz or cherry pick other players.If your up to some 1v1 in the TA ,let me know.

Mace2004 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 30, 2006, 08:02:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Creton
Fire all your guns at same time,believe me it yields the best results,and by no means fire if over 400,at least not until your profieccient in the "tater" gun.
Set you convergence at 150 and learn to get the quick snap shots.

As you know I fly the 109's nearly exclusively and land multiple kills many times in a night.Most people who fly the 109's really have no idea how to turn fight in the plane and merely bnz or cherry pick other players.If your up to some 1v1 in the TA ,let me know.

Convergence shouldn't really matter with the 109 since all the guns (except gondolas) are pretty much C/L mounted, right?

Creton · « **Reply #9 on:** November 30, 2006, 08:08:03 PM »

Some have always argued the relavence of convergence on center mounted guns.I personally found that 150 was right for me and my style of flying.I used to run all guns at 650,then reeled them in to 375 for along time and still use this convergence on all planes except the 30mm.I experimented with all ranges of convergence until I went to 150 and for some odd reason ,my hit % went up.

Thats why I recommend that people who fly 109's with the 30mm use 150 as their convergence.IMHO

porkfrog · « **Reply #10 on:** November 30, 2006, 08:15:55 PM »

wow Creton!! thanks for the awesome post. how do i use the viewer to see other than what you see. specifically i'd like to see your instruments more, so i can see IAS and at what speed you are dropping flaps.

i can't afford that TrackIR thing ATM, the wife would both kill me, and laugh me out of the house for being a complete and total geek.

i'm gonna stick with the 109f for now. using the 20mm for kill shots, and the mgs for turning em.

fuzeman · « **Reply #11 on:** November 30, 2006, 08:26:22 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mace2004
Convergence shouldn't really matter with the 109 since all the guns (except gondolas) are pretty much C/L mounted, right?

You still have to consider bullet drop in regards to the set convergence.
Check out the top graphic in this link: http://www.fw190.org/training2.htm

Creton · « **Reply #12 on:** November 30, 2006, 08:54:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by porkfrog
wow Creton!! thanks for the awesome post. how do i use the viewer to see other than what you see. specifically i'd like to see your instruments more, so i can see IAS and at what speed you are dropping flaps.

i can't afford that TrackIR thing ATM, the wife would both kill me, and laugh me out of the house for being a complete and total geek.

i'm gonna stick with the 109f for now. using the 20mm for kill shots, and the mgs for turning em.

The name of the person I'm fighting is listed on the right side of the film viewer,just double click their name and poof you are in their plane.Also in the box it shows airspeed,alt and distance from the plane your in to the plane your fighting.

At the top of the film viewer ,it shows film speed x100,just slide the slider to the left to slow the film down to a slow speed and watch the other plane or view the instruments by useing the numbers pad on the keyboard.You can also adjust the views in the plane by useing the normal adjustments and hitting f10 to set the new position.

Also fly with icons checked and use chase view helps sometimes.

Mace2004 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 30, 2006, 10:18:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by fuzeman
You still have to consider bullet drop in regards to the set convergence.
Check out the top graphic in this link: http://www.fw190.org/training2.htm

In R/L yes, that's absolutely true but I've seen discussions on the boards where people have argued AH doesn't model that (i.e., vertical convergence) while others argue it does. Personally, I've tried out the target and not seen appreciable difference with drop due to convergence, scatter yes, drop minimal. That aside, and assuming AH does model the drop, you would logically determine that C/L guns should be set at longer range. The additional "loft" relative to the A/C C/L would equate to less lead required (or built-in lead if you prefer) and the gun grouping would provide minimal scatter. Of course you'd have to compensate and aim low on straight and level shots for what would be high groupings inside of convergence. Just my thoughts, real nice website BTW.

porkfrog · « **Reply #14 on:** November 30, 2006, 10:32:45 PM »

Fire all your guns at same time

made me think of that Steppinwolf song...

"Fire all of your guns at once, and EXPLODE into spaaaaaace!!!"