Groundloops

[BaldEagl]

I still groundloop my Spit 16 probably 1 in 4 landings.  Spits are touchy that way.

[nick172]

hubsonfire you don’t know too many real pilots then if you have never heard of a real pilot use the word ground loop. Real pilots meaning pilots that are tail dragger endorsed lol.

Nick

[Quah!]

The reason you don't hear many of todays pilots talk about ground looping is because they don't fly tail draggers.

Airplanes with tail wheels, a narrow main gear or that are short from tip to tail will all have the potential to ground loop.  Combine all three and you have to be very awake when landing.  Let it get away from you for a second, let that tail slide out and you could very definitely find yourself in a ground loop.  

Take the Pitts Special, not a very difficult airplane to land, but it is known for being very difficult to land due to it's tail wheel, short fairly narrow gear and very short coupling, and add no forward view.

When asked about the squirrely ground handling of his Pitts aircraft, it's inventor Curtis Pitts, would say - "I have never seen a squirrely airplane, but I have seen plenty squirrely pilots"

Tricycle gear airplanes don't have as great a potential to ground loop.  Some may say it is not possible.  The issues with Nose wheels is not smashing them into the ground making sure you always land on the mains and let the nose gently touch down as you slow.

[Blagard]

Reading of all those people ground looping a Spit is terrible!

OK I have done it myself, but only when not paying attention or when looking around for Vulchers while landing.

I never use Auto takeoff and so have become accustomed to correcting swing with Rudder. After landing contact you should always be watching out for any tendancy to swing and be prepared to tap in some Rudder in the appropriate direction (not brake).

Perhaps it is because I do a three point landing that I rarely ground loop. I very rarely bounce either. From watching real Spits I get the feeling the three point landing technique is preferred! - This is the technique where you hold off the aircraft as close to the runway as you can until it settles (With stall horn humming away in AH!) and tail low. Misjudge it by holding off high and you will probably break something as it drops a couple of feet. Called three point because main gear and tail tend to make contact all togther.

The unfortunate thing about a Spit is that you break the undercart before completing any ground loop because it is not very strong.

As mentioned by others, the worse aircraft I have found in AH is the Corsair but it is tough enough to survive some gound loops. And yes I did ground loop the Corsair when I first tried it! (AH1) - I thought it was an evil beast on take off!, but now know it was the inept pilot! - Not sure if I have ground looped it since AHII started.

Did you know the corsair was only used on carriers after the Brits showed the Yanks how to! (Head down for the flak!). PS i cann't remember if this was technique, aircraft mods or both.

[Benny Moore]

Most of the people in this thread do not, as I suspected, know what a real ground loop is.  Ordinarily, a ground loop is not caused by brake use!  It is an event can happen with no pilot input.  As I said, there are only one or two airplanes that can have this happen in Aces High II.

A ground loop is not caused by a wingtip hitting the ground.  It is not necessarily caused by stomping one brake.  All it takes, in reality, is letting your taildragger airplane's tail get more than a few degrees off center while on the ground.

[Guppy35]

I've ground looped Spits, Corsairs and 51Ds.  Never the 51B model for some reason.  I always have to be more careful with the D.  

I always write it off to being spoiled by the 38 lack of torque and nose wheel steering

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
Where are the groundloops?  Any taildragger pilot will tell you that groundloops will happen if the tail is allowed to slide more than a few degrees off center.  Yet in Aces High II, I've only managed to groundloop the Corsair.  All the other taildraggers not only have no groundloop tendencies, but cannot be groundlooped if one tries.
 
Please, before posting something clever (and I know you simulator types so love to do that), do some basic reading on what a groundloop is and what causes it.  I'm aware that the lack of wind in the simulator can account for decreased probability of the occurence, but in no way should it make it impossible.  As it is, only one ship - two at the most - can be groundlooped at all.  Only the F-4U can be groundlooped unintentionally.

Just as an afterthought.  Benny, you gotta relax.  Just a game. Not real planes.  But for us wannabe WW2 pilots it fills the role very nicely.

Suspend your disbelief for what it's worth

[CpMorgan]

Gosh...and I thought it was only ME that did this.  Thought it was cause I'm still a Noob.

[hubsonfire]

Originally posted by nick172
hubsonfire you don’t know too many real pilots then if you have never heard of a real pilot use the word ground loop. Real pilots meaning pilots that are tail dragger endorsed lol.

Nick

I consider any one who is trained to fly a real airplane a real pilot. Are you a real pilot?

[Blagard]

Benny the ground loop is usually due to lack of correct pilot input i.e. a failure to take the right corrective action (on an aircraft that has such a tendancy). It can be induced by overcorrection as well. Wingtips hitting the ground may or may not happen during the loop but this as you say is not usually the root cause of a ground loop, but one thing that can happen as a side effect.

Letting a wing hit the ground during take off or landing due to a failure to hold the wings level can cause a ground loop. If the aircraft is a high wing sort the pilot should be shot!

Braking can induce it, but like a wing tip hit, this is due to really bad airmanship! and I accept that both these causes are not the type you had in mind because they should be rare!

The ground loop may be best described as when the aircraft chases its tail like a dog! although a dog does it so much better!

Never done a ground loop full size as only flown taildraggers P2!

I have done plenty with model aircraft (All taildraggers!). With a model I think there is a greater tendancy to overcorrect. Full size, overcorrection is also evident in inexperienced pilots. Even a simple correction on opening the throttle up a trike Cessna shows newbies overdoing correction of a simple tracking swing to a point where the instructor may need to take over due the weak nose gear! - I doubt if this would (or could) ever develope into a ground loop but its shows how any swing needs the correct input.

I'm not sure of physics that start a ground loop only of the tendancy of some aircraft to be prone to it. It shouldn't happen in an airworthy aircraft if the pilot is on the ball!

[Krusty]

How the hell can you folks be crashing spitfires on landings? P51s??? Duuuuuudes, I've NEVER ground-looped a spitfire, EVER. P51s only when I've had major damage (or pilot wound blackouts). They're fairly docile. Even the high-torque 109 series I usually don't ground loop, most I do is ding my prop (often) on heavy rate-of-descent landings.

F4us have some tendency to do this, but maybe I'm just used to it. Before the latest 2.08 patches (before 2.09) the Ta152 was impossible to land 100% of the time for me. Apparently something was fixed, as I can land it now fairly easily.

P.S. Using rudder pedals to take off, most planes require 75%-80% or more rudder deflection in the takeoff. This lessens as speed builds and I notice myself pulling my foot pressure off as I speed up, and I usually have a bit of slip once I'm up and gear up, because by this time I don't need it anymore.

That's not a small amount of rudder. It does SEEM that the forces are muted in this game, but maybe just because we can't feel inertia, swing, shifts, and so forth. I find to actually keep a plane centered on the runway during takeoff (my new favorite thing about rudders is hands-free takeoffs) it takes a lot of rudder input.

[Blagard]

LOL Krusty.

You must be one of the more serious players

When I am tired or simply not paying proper attention I can break a Spits undercart no trouble. Best way I find is to land on the perimeter track with the intent to stop on the re-arm pad, but do not pay attention, land too much off line and try to straighten with a bit too much rudder. Not a ground loop but it still breaks the gear!

Otherwise I can land fine every time if I am paying proper attention! - But hey it's only a game.

Belly landings, occasionally when I have either fogotten gear or not noticed I did not press the button properly, however with my slow landing style I have never had one blow up! - Well none I remember!

But this thread does rather sound like wacky races or a road runner cartoon all filled with crash and bang!

[Benny Moore]

The cause for the swing tendency on taildraggers is due to the center of gravity being behind the wheels.  It's kind of like pushing a grocery cart backwards.

This thread is incredible.  I say, "Groundloops can't happen in game by normal means, in other words without using brake or letting wingtip hit the ground."  Then a bunch of people say, "No, groundloops are in the game!  I know because I hit the brake or let my wing hit the ground the other day, and it groundlooped!"  Gah!

Thanks to Guppy and Blagard for being just about the only posters to actually address the issue.

[BlauK]

A ground loop CAN happen in the game when one does/can not control the plane adequately. After/due to a ground loop the plane's wing tip may hit the ground...

A LOT depend on whether one locks the tail wheel or not!!!

[BaldEagl]

I have found more success in a Spit not taking a three point landing but landing with positive force on the main wheels, cutting throttle and letting the tail settle.  It seems to take less rudder input this way as well.

It's those three point landings where I have a tendancy to overcorrect with rudder and get into trouble.  I get an initial pull to one side, correct, then get a milder swing back in the opposite direction and it's on that swing back where I overcorrect touching a wing or breaking my gear.  I know exactly what the problem is, I don't need to correct the other way, just release a small amount of the rudder I already have applied.
 
You'd think that since I know exactly where and why it's happening I'd correct it.  Of course, a few beverages usually don't help