P51D should be banned ;)

[Urchin]

LOL! we both know that isn't true Urchin.. or where you only refering to the P-51D and omitting the B

AKDejaVu

 

I stand corrected Deja- I was only referring to the D pony, not the B.  I've not seen much of the B pony, not sure what it can do at low level.

[Robert]

I'd like to take a shot at ya .    

RWY

[AKDejaVu]

I haven't had a problem with any 190 at low level in the b-pony.  I almost think the only aircraft it is superb against is actually all 190s.  It doesn't fare well against the 109's... well... not with me behind the stick that is.

I have never had an easier time with 190s as I did flying the P-51B.

AKDejaVu

[StSanta]

Creamster wrote

There is a invisible 20K sheet of atmospheric deflector shield they will NEVER come down through.

Just go below that, and watch them fly their private $30/month FLTSIM2000, without the rain effects.

ROFL!

Yesterday, I had a wingie for the first time in a looong time. Naturally we went about it 9./JG 54 style, which basically means going where there are too many red dots and too few green ones. We bounced a poor P-38, downing it and were then attacked by a high N1K and a high Spit. The N1K closed on me, but thanks to the fabulous new terrain, I dove behind a hill, broke hard left and down a canyon. And Hristo had taken another canyon with the Spit on his six so we sort a met up and a blew the Spit away. Later the N1K died.

In comes a hero 51. Dives for HO.

And then legs it. And legs it. And legs it. 50 miles, going across knight territory. Evetually we both have to refuel but we take off again, with the 51 now heading for friendlies. Legging it. Eventually, he gets into a lot of friendlies and because of an alt adv, does an immelman, gets himself d1.0 my 6 in a vertical dive, fires fires fires is outmaneuvered and...legs  it.

XBAT is a hero  .

About the pony vs G10 - if the G10 pilot is patient, there's little the pony can do - even the B pony. The G10 pilot can turn with him, since h e can throttle back and do a lag pursuit, only to open up throttle if he gets too far behind. Works for me. The pony will have to fight at the absolute edge of stall, where I feel the 109 has an advantage provided he can stay in lag pursuit and use his superior engine to get into a killing position.

[lazs1]

for the most part p51's are just annoying and easily avoided.   What I REALLY hate is when I'm flat out on the deck with a pony behind me and a spit or nik a couple hundred yard behind him.   I can easily avoid the p51 and maybe reverse him and get in a shot but then... The spit/nik or whatever turn and burn plane has my hog for lunch.  the choices are slim (I ain't drex).  Luckily P51's are seldom seen on the deck but for some strange reason.. a lot of em feel they have a chance  if they see a big ol fat hog.   Most never figure out why the hog never did much to evade (rather run and hope the weak guns on the 51 don't get me than get one pinged by the lagging cannon bird).
lazs

[Hangtime]

Deja I tend to disagree.. I see it the opposite way. 190's are D model pony food. All of 'em.

Usually.   (great flyin Urchin!)

The 109's are more of a problem for pony's... well flown ones anyway. The G10 has the speed and engine to make a pony go defensive. There; it's a pilot fight.. scissors; evasives; timing and E reads become the pony pilots weapon.. the g10's simply a better pony than than the pony is. The B model pony is very much G10 food quickly unless the fight is very high.. I think even the the D has a better chance against a well flown G10.

The light 109's like the f4 and g2 can actually work a P51d into a turnfight and clobber it down low... here the b model pony would be the appropriate choice only because it can achieve turn parity, and the speed is less of a factor.

Sadly; I don't think much of the engine/airplane combo they gave us in AH for the 'B'. Tho the B turns better than the D; the accel is worse than the D, and the speed is off from the D also. On the deck a B model pony is a lamed up D.. turns better; but that's all. Factor in the 4 .50's that seem to have a wierd dispersion or tracer prob, and I get aggravated with it. But that's just me. Most folks like it.

Note that all of the above relates to my experience at 15k and lower... I don't often find myself flying and fighting any higher than that.

Also note that I have a large amount of respect for these ugly second rate almost as good LW planes as adversaries... when a good pilot's in it.

I've never felt a P51D was the uber plane of the war. That slot goes to The Bearcat and Tigercat.. and maybe the Me262. But IMHO the P51D is the prettiest, slickest, most spectacular example of the American Propfighter.. some may differ, and point at their jugs or 38's.. that's cool. Some guys like brunettes and blondes. I dig fast redheads.  

When it comes right down to it.. flying a D pony ONLY to it's strong points makes it a damn deadly plane.. no matter where it finds you.

[Fokker]

Dont you dare perk my favourite ride!!!

P51, both D and B, are close to invincible if not used stupid. That is true.

However, it is a great skill to use the p51 right all the time, and it takes a fairly good gunner to get many kills. Guns are sadly enough a bit weak. You need to stay on target for a sec or two. Snap shots just dont make dammage from a p51.

Many seem to think the p51 aint no good turner. Not right. It sure can turn and my favourit is 190s that think they can turn with it. Only wise 190 pilots avoid turning with a p51 when they see it is piloted by a non dweeb.

P51 not good down low??? I seldom fly above 15K unless when buff hunting. I sure dont stay on deck for long, but I would not do that which ever plane I use.

Only bad thing with p51 is its nasty spins. Can happen very quick, specially when flap is used, and you need to use flap in combat with the p51, at least with the p51D.

LtData 'Fokker old handle'

[AKDejaVu]

Deja I tend to disagree.. I see it the opposite way. 190's are D model pony food. All of 'em.

Umm.. just what are you disagreeing with hang?  I said the same thing about the B model.  I can't really speak for the D, since I don't really have any stick time in it.

AKDejaVu

[Hangtime]

I think the P51B's lamed.. and not much good against the firepower and speed of the FW's. Sure if the FW wants to turn fight a B will get him pretty easy.... but if the FW's smart and flys to it's strengths then a B's outclassed... possible exception being the FWa5.

B's are better against the lighter 109's like the g2 and f4.. IMHO.  

[Urchin]

Yea, I think pretty much like Hangtime. The 190A5 actually is a DECENT turner... if I get on a pony's 6 I can usually stay there by alternating lead and lag pursuits.  I've never really fought a B pony in a 190, but unless it turns a LOT better, I think it will probably be pretty similar.

[AKDejaVu]

Urchin.. you have fought a b-pony in a 190.  I know this for a fact.  You may not have noticed how well it handled because it was behind you.

AKDejaVu

[Toad]

Originally posted by Hangtime:
some may differ, and point at their jugs

Often I too see jugs that I like to point at. Usually during the summer months for some reason.

 

[Zigrat]

the b pony is an awesome la7 killer

i love the b pony

and the b pony is awesome at killing 190s. i hate fighting b pony in dora, but the d pony is cake to kill.


if i had t to pick my #1 favorite airplane right now, itd be the b pony, but i am axis in the rumble so i need to log some 190 and 109 time  

[Spatula]

All this toejame about the pony being invincible is pure BS. Its beatable, plain and simple, like all planes in the set. With *any* plane you can 'stay above 20k and only swoop down and attack planes with the advantage'. If this is all you ever do then no one is ever going to kill you, unless you get real unlucky.

IMO all 109s are very hard opponents given an equal E situation. 190s, espc the Dora are hard opponents too.

If you spend more time in a pony, the more you will realise it glaring weaknesses (i aint mentioning them). Ponies are far from uber. IMO the dora is a better plane in every respect.

[StSanta]

Given equal pilot skill, in a co alt co e fight, the Pony has a definite advantage. I'd also not recommend for any 190 pilot to go into a turn fight vs a pony - it might work against lesser pilots, but those with just a tad bit of experience will easily win such a contest.

Loop fights - same. 51 comes over and around much faster.

Zoom up for a rope a dope - meet Hangtime and you'll know just how long a 51 can keep its guns pointed straight up.

109's are excellent pony killers. If ya get a pony on yer 6 when very low in a 109, take the fight slow into scissors and, during that final, critical moment, use yer engine advantage to force the 51 either to break off or stall into the ground  . It seems the 51 get a wee bit wobbly when very slow, but that it can go slower than the 109 and still have control.