A G10!!!!!!

[wrag]

PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So OK it would be slower then the K4.  Fine!


BUT FASTER then the G14!  (IMHO the G14 is a POS, that can't reach It's reported top speed (408 at 16.5K), and is a ground support version of the 109)


And it would have 20mm nose gun with 30mm option


And option for GONDS!!!


Might not be too hard to set up!   Would be same FM as K4 but set to top out at a little lower speed!


And would fix the gapping hole in the LW plane set for TOD!

Already posted info in previous post about the G10.

BTW I NEVER requested the K4!!!  I did not want the K4

I put the above in for the person that may come here and say "you asked for it"  Cause I NEVER did!  I even posted saying NO NO NO leave the G10!

[skycaptn]

Originally posted by wrag
Waaaaaaaaaaaaa!

[Krusty]

The G-10 would be considerably slower than the K-4. They had a very wide range of performance, from "Just barely better than a G-6" to "somewhat less than a K-4". If you took the average it would be only slightly better than the G-14. The G-14 in AH breaks 400mph easily at 15k. If you're not making this you have DTs, gondolas and other drag-inducing elements onboard.


Considering the G-14 is only 20mph slower than the K-4 across most altitudes, there's little call for a "true G-10". You just want the old K-4 specs with G-10 guns, which was not a historically accurate representation of what the plane could do. Either you outrun everything in a K-4 but pay for it by being unable to hit anything, or you get guns that are worth a damn in the G-14 but you're 20mph slower.

It's a fair trade.

EDIT: P.S. http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=109g14&p2=109k4

[Bronk]

Originally posted by wrag


BTW I NEVER requested the K4!!!  I did not want the K4

Yea shame the OLD G-10 was a K-4 just with a 20mm gun option.

Your basing your expectations that a reintroduced G-10 will perform like the old one.


Bronk

[1K3]

Let me get the picture here...

1.  Is 109G-14 a mid-grade 109G-6 (with a max speed of ~380) and 109G-10 (with a max speed of ~430)

2.  Is 109G-10 a mid-grade 109G-14 (with max speed of ~410) and 109K-4 (with a max speed of ~450)

3.  Is our 109G-14 optimised only for low alt to medium alt just like the Spit XVI?  This leads me to believe that 109G-10 is optimised for medium alt to high alt (backed by data)

[wrag]

Originally posted by Krusty
The G-10 would be considerably slower than the K-4. They had a very wide range of performance, from "Just barely better than a G-6" to "somewhat less than a K-4". If you took the average it would be only slightly better than the G-14. The G-14 in AH breaks 400mph easily at 15k. If you're not making this you have DTs, gondolas and other drag-inducing elements onboard.


Considering the G-14 is only 20mph slower than the K-4 across most altitudes, there's little call for a "true G-10". You just want the old K-4 specs with G-10 guns, which was not a historically accurate representation of what the plane could do. Either you outrun everything in a K-4 but pay for it by being unable to hit anything, or you get guns that are worth a damn in the G-14 but you're 20mph slower.

It's a fair trade.

EDIT: P.S. http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=109g14&p2=109k4

Tried it at 15K no DT, no Gonds, no Bombs, just 20mm nose cannon and cowl mgs.  

Let it fly on auto for nearly 7 minutes.  Never got above 397.  Reported top speed = 408.

408 is NOT 20 mph slower the K4???????  OTD G14 is only 20 mph slower then K4????

either you are flying a different G14 and different K4 then me or my copy of AH is messed up.

Although I did try it before the last patch.  Will try it again.

[wrag]

Originally posted by Bronk
Yea shame the OLD G-10 was a K-4 just with a 20mm gun option.

Your basing your expectations that a reintroduced G-10 will perform like the old one.


Bronk

No I do not.  think maybe you didn't bother to FULLY read my post?

http://www.adlertag.de/mainindex.htm

Look at the G10 specs listed.  426 mph is not K4 speed.  And yes I have looked at other sources, and yes they pretty much say the same thing.

Look at the G14 specs  408 mph top speed.  Ground support is it's most reported configuration.

What You didn't read that I stated a g10 would be slower then a K4 but faster then a g14?????

Thinkin both you and Krusty got a thing about LW planes maybe?

Seen you both reply in earlier post re this same subject.

[Serenity]

Fine, take your G10 but leave my G-14! I like hood much better, which is also why I fly the G6 and not the G2.

[Krusty]

Well I suppose that's my fault. I should have said "about 15k". Looking at the chart it's above that. I tried it offline just now and got to 406mph at 16.5k (and that might not be the best alt, but it's close). It took a long time to get to 406, so it was near the limit, but I didn't want to wait so I stopped at 406.

EDIT: They had custom-made FW190s for ground attack. G-14s were G-6s with MW50 installed. You don't need high-alt boost when you're in a ground pounder. I don't "have a thing for" these planes. I enjoy flying them sometimes, but note I fly other planes more than LW planes. I think you "have a thing" -- you were spoiled with the K-4 of old and want it back. Well, just like the single-room arena, it's not coming back.

[wrag]

Originally posted by 1K3
Let me get the picture here...

1.  Is 109G-14 a mid-grade 109G-6 (with a max speed of ~380) and 109G-10 (with a max speed of ~430)

2.  Is 109G-10 a mid-grade 109G-14 (with max speed of ~410) and 109K-4 (with a max speed of ~450)

3.  Is our 109G-14 optimised only for low alt to medium alt just like the Spit XVI?  This leads me to believe that 109G-10 is optimised for medium alt to high alt (backed by data)

Pretty close to my understanding!

Although most of what I've read says the G14 tops out at 408, or should, as I have already stated I never could get the AH g14 to do 400 in straight and level flight as Krusty reports but going to try again.   Perhaps he dove first?  I climbed out using autospeed climb and then went level at reported alt and waited for it to top out then hit wep.  NO DT, NO GONDS, just 20mm hub cannon and mg and 100% fuel loadout.  Took it to 15k and tried, and the reported 16.5K and tried.  I have to say that once I went level and stayed level 397 was the best I got.  OTD think the G2 can catch the G14?

G10 top speed is reported as 426.  G14 = 408

K4 speeds 452 at alt and 320 OTD

http://www.adlertag.de/mainindex.htm

So G10 fits right in between the K4 and the G14.

[Krusty]

See my previous reply.

Also you might be wary of using that webpage. They state that the "G6" had a 30mm hub, 2 20mm on the wings and 13mm under the cowlings. Very brief, no details about all the changes the G-6 went through, or the fact that the 30mm were mostly later-war, more equivelant to G-14s without MW50 than G6s.

It also says the G10 "was the fastest 109 of the war" and that the K-4 was directly developed from the G-10. Both of these are false.

Under the details for the G-14 it says "only a low number produced"

Note under the G-10 it says DB605D and "other engines used" but supplies the best speed for the best configuration. The reality is that G-10s didn't have enough high-end engines. They were being built in parallel with the K-4s, and those engines weren't ready either. More G-10s had lesser engines (i.e. the engine from a G-6/AS [edit: I admit I don't know the engines' names very well, and am guessing here]), and had lower performance specs.

That's a misleading and inaccurate website.

[wrag]

Originally posted by Krusty
Well I suppose that's my fault. I should have said "about 15k". Looking at the chart it's above that. I tried it offline just now and got to 406mph at 16.5k (and that might not be the best alt, but it's close). It took a long time to get to 406, so it was near the limit, but I didn't want to wait so I stopped at 406.

EDIT: They had custom-made FW190s for ground attack. G-14s were G-6s with MW50 installed. You don't need high-alt boost when you're in a ground pounder. I don't "have a thing for" these planes. I enjoy flying them sometimes, but note I fly other planes more than LW planes. I think you "have a thing" -- you were spoiled with the K-4 of old and want it back. Well, just like the single-room arena, it's not coming back.

Don't try it offline try it ONLINE.

That is where I tried it.  

Long time?  Wanna time that?  10 minutes?

I want a ground pounder I'll fly a 110 of 190f8 thank you.  as to the G10 vs the G14  406 and 426 are nearly the same speed?

G14 = 406 (by your report)

G10 = 426 (by most every report I've found)

K4  = 452  (by most every report I've found)

G10 SHOULD handle like a K4, perhaps a tad better if 20mm hub selected over 30mm, but be about 25mph slower.   With Gond option preformance would of course suffer.

NOT about 50mph slower as in the groundpounder G14.

For TOD there is at this time a hole in the LW plane set IMHO.  A G10 would patch it nicely.

[wrag]

Originally posted by Krusty
See my previous reply.

Also you might be wary of using that webpage. They state that the "G6" had a 30mm hub, 2 20mm on the wings and 13mm under the cowlings. Very brief, no details about all the changes the G-6 went through, or the fact that the 30mm were mostly later-war, more equivelant to G-14s without MW50 than G6s.

It also says the G10 "was the fastest 109 of the war" and that the K-4 was directly developed from the G-10. Both of these are false.

Under the details for the G-14 it says "only a low number produced"

Note under the G-10 it says DB605D and "other engines used" but supplies the best speed for the best configuration. The reality is that G-10s didn't have enough high-end engines. They were being built in parallel with the K-4s, and those engines weren't ready either. More G-10s had lesser engines (i.e. the engine from a G-6/AS [edit: I admit I don't know the engines' names very well, and am guessing here]), and had lower performance specs.

That's a misleading and inaccurate website.

Really?  What I've read elsewhere pretty well matchs this site.  G14 came 1st? G10 and K models came later and were being built same time?  These people were desperate figure allot was going on same time.  190 info is pretty mixed as well but AH 190s now seem to handle and fly much better then they used to.

[Krusty]

The G-14 was a late G-6 with MW50. Most G6s that had MW50 installed were re-labeled G-14s. There were quite a few of them.


The K-4 was planned to be the ultimate version, but it was taking too long. So they brought out some plans to produce the G-10 while waiting for the K-4, only they both ended up coming out a month apart, with the K-4 having better performance.

[wrag]

Originally posted by Krusty
The G-14 was a late G-6 with MW50. Most G6s that had MW50 installed were re-labeled G-14s. There were quite a few of them.


The K-4 was planned to be the ultimate version, but it was taking too long. So they brought out some plans to produce the G-10 while waiting for the K-4, only they both ended up coming out a month apart, with the K-4 having better performance.

OK lets get on the same page?

I'm not asking for a G10 that has the SAME preformance as the K4.

I'm asking to file the gap between the G14 and the K4.

There is about a 50 mph speed difference.  The preformance differences would be takin care of as well.  

With the allied planes any preformance gap is pretty close to nil.

The G10 IMHO fills that 50mph gap and sets very nearly in the middle between the G14 and the K4.

Further it gives the pilot greater flexability on the load out.

I'm NOT asking for the K4 with 30mm gonds as some historians report were available.  Not asking for a K4 with 20mm gonds either although I'm pretty sure there were some.