Dumb panic is now A-OK

[Sixpence]

I wonder if the 'artist' is going to film himself being deported

[Kieran]

Originally posted by Shuckins
Balderdash Kieran.  How do you think the Israelis maintain security in their schools?

I'll tell you how....it's really very simple.  They arm their school personnel.  They are NOT untrained boobs who don't know a threat when they see it.  Those teachers and the school children under their supervision are trained in emergency procedures for those times when a terrorists might enter the school and start shooting.

They   Fight    Back.    And Win.

Here in the U.S., we eulogize the heroic teachers who shield their students in such situations with their own bodies......

......which is a pity since they have NO other options.

The tragedy at Columbine could have been rendered a LOT less bloody by a couple of steely-eyed teachers with nothing more than .22 caliber pistols.

So let me get this straight... you are comparing America to Israel?

We don't having bombings in discos or exploding buses on a regular basis. We don't have border skirmishes that result in deaths on a regular basis. We do not have the homogeneous society that has a united resolve to do whatever it takes to eliminate the very real threat that exists within the society.

In short, we have very little in common with Israel in terms of the hyper-awareness they are forced to live in.

We will never arm teachers in our classrooms. Ain't gonna happen. Do you think any school system could surivive the multi-million dollar lawsuit that would follow any shooting? Or even fighting (and winning) the court battle?

And besides...

Wasn't this whole thread about "the terrorists winning" and "unreasonable fear"? Doesn't it seem like arming teachers (and everyone else in society) is pretty much a knee-jerk reaction to fear? It's insanity.

[Shuckins]

What's insanity is the assumption that there is NOTHING that can be done to keep such violence out of the school or to negate it when it shows up in the schools.

What does it matter whether the threat comes from terrorists or Kliebold and Harris?  What do you suggest the schools do when the watermelon hits the fan?  Call 911?  Wait for the SWAT teams to arrive.....study maps of the school in order to develop an attack plan....which takes a lot of TIME?

How many have to die in the interim because you aren't willing to trust your fellow man to make the correct decisions in an emergency?

If you're so worried about a teacher making a mistake in such a situation, have them go through crisis training first.....annually qualify with a pistol....learn self defence techniques.  

Just cease the hand-wringing about what might happen and take the necessary precautions to prevent it.  Nothing that has been done in the nation's schools up to this point is adequate to meet the threat.

[john9001]

Originally posted by Kieran

We will never arm teachers in our classrooms. Ain't gonna happen. Do you think any school system could surivive the multi-million dollar lawsuit that would follow any shooting? Or even fighting (and winning) the court battle?
 

sounds like you care more about law suits than children's lives.

however, i do agree about teachers having guns, i don't want no gun-phobic teacher having a gun , they will put their eye out.

[Kieran]

John,

What I am saying is the legal red tape alone assures me teachers with guns will never happen. Please, don't try to assign anything else to my sentiments regarding the safety of children.



Shuckins,

Wringing my hands? Refute my points logically taking into account the society in which we live. Not a single thing you've suggested regarding violence in schools is even remotely possible in our country.

We will never allow teachers to carry guns.

We haven't the resources to "intruder proof" any single building, let alone the myriad buildings a school corporation may have.

I live in a poor, rural county in Indiana, yet we have 8 elementaries, 3 middle schools, and one high school in the northern half of the county alone. The southern half adds another 3 elementaries, a middle school, and a high school. That is a lot of ground to cover, now isn't it? How many guards does that take? What kinds of structures need to be in place in each building to guarantee an intruder cannot shoot a door or window out to get in? Metal detectors... what do they cost, and what difference do they make anyway?

Now try to imagine trying to cover the greater metropolitan areas of Chicago, L.A., New York....

Tough enough to keep enough qualified teachers on hand as it is, and now we are going to spend money on guards, barriers, metal detectors, etc. All so you can keep your guns. Tell me, who is making more sense here?

Like it or not, this isn't Israel. People in Israel accept that if you act out of the expected you stand a very real chance of being shot and killed on the spot. People in America do not feel that way. Apples and oranges.

Anyway... if we aren't supposed to be afraid, why should we arm teachers?

[lasersailor184]

We will never arm teachers in our classrooms. Ain't gonna happen. Do you think any school system could surivive the multi-million dollar lawsuit that would follow any shooting? Or even fighting (and winning) the court battle?

I don't think he's talking about arming teachers.  He's talking about letting them have CCW's on school property.

[BTW]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
I don't think he's talking about arming teachers.  He's talking about letting them have CCW's on school property.

Allowing that is arming teachers.

[lasersailor184]

No, arming teachers is giving them guns.

[john9001]

<>

teachers don't need guns there, them ol farm boys got guns an know how to use them.

[BTW]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
No, arming teachers is giving them guns.

Semantically, but effectively, allowing CCW for teacher in schools is arming teachers. I think the key issue is whether or not armed teachers would solve more problems than it creates. We can't keep sexual predators off the teaching roles. Do we really want to start arming unstable teachers that slip through the cracks? Of all the schools in this country, how many have be subjected to terrorist attacks? What is the chance of allowing an unstable teacher to carry a gun to school compared to the chance of a few armed teachers being in the right place to stop a terrorist attack? I think the chance of having a few hundred unstable teaches in schools throughout the US with guns is more realistic than having an armed teacher (or teachers)stop a terrorist attack.  Embassies protected by armed marines have been fodder for terrorists. Why do you think teachers would fair any better?

[Shuckins]

BTW...do you have a problem with arming a few hundred unstable police officers?

Or do you feel that teachers are, somehow, inherently more unstable than the average police officer?

An officer who is sent to a home with a volatile situation in progress is five times as likely to make a mistake and shoot the wrong person as the homeowner themselves.

In a violent crisis situation occurring in a public school, the police and SWAT teams would only get there in time to fill up their body bags.

The Israelis manage to prevent similar things from happening, but you profess to believe that Americans are incapable of doing the same thing.

So, what solution do you propose, other than to put 911 on the school's telephone speed dials?

[Kieran]

Originally posted by Shuckins
BTW...do you have a problem with arming a few hundred unstable police officers?

Or do you feel that teachers are, somehow, inherently more unstable than the average police officer?

An officer who is sent to a home with a volatile situation in progress is five times as likely to make a mistake and shoot the wrong person as the homeowner themselves.

In a violent crisis situation occurring in a public school, the police and SWAT teams would only get there in time to fill up their body bags.

The Israelis manage to prevent similar things from happening, but you profess to believe that Americans are incapable of doing the same thing.

So, what solution do you propose, other than to put 911 on the school's telephone speed dials?

Brother!

You are no longer trying to debate rationally. Stop putting words in my mouth.

I never said teachers are unstable- I said the public would never tolerate teachers shooting anyone for any reason.

I said Americans are not homogeneous enough to tolerate what Israelis tolerate. We simply have different conditions.

I have said we cannot keep people from walking off the streets and into our schools with guns. We haven't the resources to do it.

I have stated this is my reasoning for my change of heart regarding gun control.

Simple enough to follow?

Hey, you can be for guns if you want to be. I can tell you with authority you haven't the slightest idea of what goes on in a school from the professional end of things. You haven't offered a thing that is remotely possible in any school corporation. And you can't, because nothing short of limiting the number of guns available in this country will help make schools, public offices, post offices, etc. safer from insane folks hell bent on going out in a flame of glory. Honestly, the way a few of you fellows talk, a few kids here or there are a small price to pay to keep your weapons.

[rpm]

Originally posted by Sixpence
They filmed police arriving. Read the article I posted.

"The photographs debunk statements both men made that they had not realized the guerilla marketing effort to promote a cartoon network program had sparked widespread chaos"

"Their presence at the first of more than a dozen calls from people who found the devices 'proves intent' to cause panic"

Gee, they just happened to be there with a camera when police arrived, what a coincidence!

C'mon rpm, it doesn't take much of a detective to figure out what happened, they called in a hoax bomb threat and filmed the reaction.

And i'll take a quote from his lawyer "that's what he does, he videotapes things"

You and Chairboy just can't admit you were wrong, it reminds me of an episode of south park:

Kyle: Cartman, you really were abducted!

Cartman: No I wasn't!

Kyle: Dude, there's a 60 foot antenna sticking out of your ass!

Cartman: I dont know what you're talking about

I read the article you posted, I read the article online the day it was printed. Nowhere do I see where BPD has any evidence at all that they called in a bomb threat. BPD has'nt even accused them of calling in a bomb threat, only placing the devices. Only you have "connected the dots" and accused them of calling in a bomb threat. Has Paul Revere arrived with the Caller ID info yet? I know things work slower up there, but does it really take 2 weeks to get Caller ID info at Boston 911 HQ?

I find it quite reasonable that he taped the hoopla, especially since he knew it was a lite brite and not a terrorist weapon. Good God man, he could win $100,000 on America's Funniest Videos. I see no intent to cause panic. If that was the idea, why did they wait 3 weeks. Why were'nt they screaming "BOMB!!" instead of quietly watching?

As for refusing to admit what is painfully clear, I'm afraid the shoe is on the other foot my friend. Boston has a long history of blowing things way out of porportion, hence the phrase "banned in Boston". Face it, Massachusetts is full of whiney girly men that love to make mountains out of molehills.

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by rpm

I read the article you posted, I read the article online the day it was printed.

lol, you go to boston.com everyday?

BPD has'nt even accused them of calling in a bomb threat, only placing the devices.

No, they say the evidence "proves intent to cause panic" , that's a crime.

Only you have "connected the dots" and accused them of calling in a bomb threat.

As where the DA has not dropped charges, I think they are connecting the dots too.

Has Paul Revere arrived with the Caller ID info yet? I know things work slower up there, but does it really take 2 weeks to get Caller ID info at Boston 911 HQ?

Why, do you have any info that they don't? If they reveal they do in the coming days, are you wrong?

I find it quite reasonable that he taped the hoopla, especially since he knew it was a lite brite and not a terrorist weapon.

In the words of the whiner line Glenn Ordway imitator " but honey bunch, you're making my point!"

Good God man, he could win $100,000 on America's Funniest Videos.

Or sell it to the marketing company

Why were'nt they screaming "BOMB!!" instead of quietly watching?

Because that would be the evidence that puts them away?

Face it, Massachusetts is full of whiney girly men that love to make mountains out of molehills.

Well, seeming to go to boston.com everyday, I see you have a fetish for whiney girlymen

[Shuckins]

Kieran,

I ask again....what plan would you substitute for arming teachers to protect the students in our school?

You said we don't have the resources to keep someone from coming in off the streets and shooting up our schools.

Conceding the point you made about the public never allowing teachers to carry weapons, I note that your only solution is to disarm the populace.

That will never fly either, and you know it.

As to your statement that the public would never stand for a teacher shooting anyone....are you kidding?  Is there no instance in which a teacher would shoot an armed intruder in order to save the lives of his students that you could accept?

The problem with American society isn't that it is not homogenous enough to support an Israeli style system.  The problem is that many urbanites have lost the instinct for self-preservation.  Rather than handle such problems yourself, or allowing your fellow citizen to take a hand, you want the government to handle it....in essence relegating the citizen to the status of a sheep, who hopes the shepherd will arrive before the lion devours him.

How many victims died at Columbine during the time it took for the authorities to travel to the school, talk to witnesses, assess the situation, develop a plan of assault, and implement that plan?  Too many.  

But let us hang on to our politically correct views about all this....regardless of the consequences.