When do I cycle Flaps/Chop Throttle in a turn fight?

[rauchen]

Say I'm in a looping flight and I want to get angles on my opponent- when do I chop the throttle & raise & lower the flaps?  Seems like all flaps & all power will haul me around the fastest.

Rounds in my canopy tell me this is wrong, tho...  

[Ack-Ack]

What plane are you flying?


ack-ack

[rauchen]

190 A8, Dora, A6M5, Ki61, F4F, Spit 5, Ki-84, Mossie.

Take your pick.

[SkyRock]

So many variables come into the equation of when to do these things.  You have to take your speed into account, your opponents speed into account, what degree of angle is needed to accomplish where you want to be, and many other things.  The best way to learn these is to go to the TA and practice with someone who knows.  Get on a vox channel with them and let them talk you through.  
Mark:aok

[TequilaChaser]

as Skyrock eluded to, there is a lot of variables to consider when thinking about working flaps and working the throttle in Prop driven aircraft ( ie... Aces HIgh II )

I will give you some basic tips on starting out to learning Flaps and Throttle effectively in most any plane you fly in Aces High -

Tip#1 - Prop driven planes are very short on the Acceleration end, so I would suggest you only use Chopping Throttle as a last resort to maintain following an opponent,  working the throttle verse a complete Chopping of the Throttle ( 100% to 0% throttle) is a better way to go.

Tip#2- starting out to learn to use flaps, I suggest you use the following speed vs notch of flap guide, to begin with! as you practice and start getting acustomed to using flaps and throttle you will gain more experience and gain "A Feel For flaps" when in a fight and not necessarly have to watch your IAS/TAS gauge.

250 mph or Faster - No flaps
220 mph / 190 mph - 1 notch flaps out
185 mph / 165 mph - 2 notches flaps out
160 mph / 140 mph - 3 notches flaps out
135 mph / 115 mph - 4 notches flaps out
100 mph or slower - all notches flaps out

now this is mainly for muilti - positional flaps ( planes with 4 or more flap settings ) (***NOTE*** this is basic example and is not a 1 ALL , Win All adivce statement, it is up to the individual pilot to find the sweet spot, and one can only do that by practicing!!!)

some planes only have  either in or out, or have in 1/2 out / full out

these planes you prob do not want to drop flaps until you are 130 mph or slower,  and really keep them in unless you are in a scissors manuever ( which you will also hold up on cutting throttle back  until last resort, instead using lag turns while keeping speed WOT )

also, learning your planes flight envelope in each flap setting, what it can do and can not do ( meaning REALLY LEARN HOW FAR YOU CAN PUSH THE EDGE OF THE ENVELOPE FOR THAT FLAP SETTING ) and compare its performance to other different type planes you are fighting.

all planes going around 250 or faster are basically capable of pulling max G's ( Blacking out ) so you should also practice riding the tunnel ( that blacking out shrinks to all black , if you find the tunnel , ride it to roughly a 2 1/2" to 3" diameter opening in center of screen) this will allow you a little extra pull with out full black-out if it is needed, and will allow you to find your opponent in any view while turning/pulling.

Going over the top of the loop in the vertical, kicking out a notch or 2 of flaps will help kick it over the top faster, but in doing so, bring them in on the down side, so you do not create drag, and your speed will build quicker. unless you do not want to build speed fast....as mentioned before practice......

Hope this helps, will post more when my brain clears the block that just occurred.....



Scca, sorry mate, I am on the laptop, while my desktop is defragging.....I sent you an email thru webmail lil bit ago. I saw ya in TA for bout 30 seconds, but it wouldn't let me type...

[TequilaChaser]

ok, refering back to the following:

Basic Flap Settings vs Speed
250 mph or Faster - No flaps
220 mph / 190 mph - 1 notch flaps out
185 mph / 165 mph - 2 notches flaps out
160 mph / 140 mph - 3 notches flaps out
135 mph / 115 mph - 4 notches flaps out
100 mph or slower - all notches flaps out

some planes for instance, the ki-84, will require you to get alot slower than 220 or 190 before you can begin to deploy the 1st notch of flaps, somewhere around 165 to 160 or a smidge slower before flaps are useful. The spitfire series planes having just 1 notch ( full out) you need to be even slower under 140 to 130 mph. Some planes will not benefit from having 4 notches of flaps  or all notches of flaps out, you actually create to much drag verses generated lift / lack of thrust( forward power) so it is imparitive to LEARN YOUR PLANE and it's complete flight envelope.  

I mentioned earlier when coming over the top in a loop and starting back down you should bring in your flaps as quick as possible. The reason for this is you can gain speed quicker, than relying on the Auto Retraction of flaps that occurs to all planes,  unload your G's ( ease up on the stick pulling ) on the down side and snatch in the flaps quickly for quicker Energy gains.

for me personally, when flying German planes equipped with leading edge slats, I do not think of lowering any flaps until I know I am slow enough, and usually when I hear the slats open , it gives me the cue to drop a notch or 2 of flaps, sometimes bringing them in when they close again / sometimes not, all dependent on the fight I am in.

A few other things, when performing Double immelman  maneuvers, I will not drop flaps on the 1st Immelman, but gradually will bring them in when following thru with the 2nd(top) Immelman.

when performing a Spiral climb, I will gradually drop out a notch of flaps to maintain my lift as I am slowing in the climb, also using Rudder with opposite aileron to control my turn

when trying to defend a bogey on my 6, and entering a spiral dive, I will reduce throttle and drop a notch or 2 of flaps to slow the desent rate/speed and tightening up the spiral dive, all the while watching my attacker try to stick with me, yet blow past me because he is to fast, as you see your opponent come by your 3/9 line immediately bring in the flaps /roll lift vector toward the opponent and unload your G's to gain as much speed as possible for maybe a snapshot


with the few things I have typed here, it is truly best to fly your plane in it's best performance range when in a fight, to me that is from about 25 mph above it's best instantaneous turn speed/turn rate to right at or 5 mph below it's sustained turn speed/turn rate.

in the MA environment, you are pron to be picked by 3 or 4 other attackers, while you are trying to engage just a single opponent, so the faster and longer you can stay at the high speed end of the envelope, the more liekly you are to survive, until your SA skills improve

hope this helps ----Good Luck

[Scca]

Originally posted by TequilaChaser
as Skyrock eluded to, there is a lot of variables to consider when thinking about working flaps and working the throttle in Prop driven aircraft ( ie... Aces HIgh II )

I will give you some basic tips on starting out to learning Flaps and Throttle effectively in most any plane you fly in Aces High -

Tip#1 - Prop driven planes are very short on the Acceleration end, so I would suggest you only use Chopping Throttle as a last resort to maintain following an opponent,  working the throttle verse a complete Chopping of the Throttle ( 100% to 0% throttle) is a better way to go.

Tip#2- starting out to learn to use flaps, I suggest you use the following speed vs notch of flap guide, to begin with! as you practice and start getting acustomed to using flaps and throttle you will gain more experience and gain "A Feel For flaps" when in a fight and not necessarly have to watch your IAS/TAS gauge.

250 mph or Faster - No flaps
220 mph / 190 mph - 1 notch flaps out
185 mph / 165 mph - 2 notches flaps out
160 mph / 140 mph - 3 notches flaps out
135 mph / 115 mph - 4 notches flaps out
100 mph or slower - all notches flaps out

now this is mainly for muilti - positional flaps ( planes with 4 or more flap settings ) (***NOTE*** this is basic example and is not a 1 ALL , Win All adivce statement, it is up to the individual pilot to find the sweet spot, and one can only do that by practicing!!!)

some planes only have  either in or out, or have in 1/2 out / full out

these planes you prob do not want to drop flaps until you are 130 mph or slower,  and really keep them in unless you are in a scissors manuever ( which you will also hold up on cutting throttle back  until last resort, instead using lag turns while keeping speed WOT )

also, learning your planes flight envelope in each flap setting, what it can do and can not do ( meaning REALLY LEARN HOW FAR YOU CAN PUSH THE EDGE OF THE ENVELOPE FOR THAT FLAP SETTING ) and compare its performance to other different type planes you are fighting.

all planes going around 250 or faster are basically capable of pulling max G's ( Blacking out ) so you should also practice riding the tunnel ( that blacking out shrinks to all black , if you find the tunnel , ride it to roughly a 2 1/2" to 3" diameter opening in center of screen) this will allow you a little extra pull with out full black-out if it is needed, and will allow you to find your opponent in any view while turning/pulling.

Going over the top of the loop in the vertical, kicking out a notch or 2 of flaps will help kick it over the top faster, but in doing so, bring them in on the down side, so you do not create drag, and your speed will build quicker. unless you do not want to build speed fast....as mentioned before practice......

Hope this helps, will post more when my brain clears the block that just occurred.....



Scca, sorry mate, I am on the laptop, while my desktop is defragging.....I sent you an email thru webmail lil bit ago. I saw ya in TA for bout 30 seconds, but it wouldn't let me type...

Déjà vu...  Even the last part...