Author Topic: Global Warming SOLAR-made not MAN-made  (Read 17614 times)

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #180 on: July 27, 2007, 08:28:40 AM »
here it is... look at the rate it is dropping!!!! we have to do something before it drops to freezing..

http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/climon/data/themi/g17.htm

sure...we are safe for now.. it looks like it has leveled off but... look at the way it has gone down in the last few years... at that rate it won't be long before the ice age is upon us..

famine... cold and hunger... millions starving to death.. the colder ocean sucking up our valuable co2 and depriving crops of yeild...  plants dying and crops sparce..  people huddled together for warmth in almost prehistoric conditions... the polar caps growing and glaciers marching in on civilization.... much of the American continent under ice.

you heard it here first folks... don't forget who told you and be sure to send that check.

lazs

Offline Angus

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« Reply #181 on: July 27, 2007, 09:16:35 AM »
I just pointed out that the watermass contains enormously much more energy as well as mass than the atmosphere. A day in my place will easily have 20 degs C as a swing while the sea has practically none. Capiche?
As for the pole, I am fully aware that that area has been warmer. Areas in Greenland that now are exposing themselves (cough) are showing remains of a climate that once was similar to Scandinavia. Same show comes from fossils in the oldest parts of my country, and those are probably younger than the last heat disaster, that I have quoted before, - after all, the globe has flushed out most of it's life a few times before. Even with a global warming effect!
Here is one theory for you about the poles. After all, we have a polar roll, and we have polar shifts, and magnetic shifts which are another thing.
About non-Polish Poles:


Here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pole_shift_theory

Here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change#Orbital_variations

Here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming

And....:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retreat_of_glaciers_since_1850

And:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_region

Here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_ice_cap

And...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_forcing

The Ice age:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age

Our human times in climate occur here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene



And some extraction:

"The Earth is now in an interglacial period known as the Holocene. It was conventional wisdom that "the typical interglacial period lasts about 12,000 years" but now appears to be incorrect from the evidence of ice core records. Therefore, it has been widely contradicted recently; for example, an article in Nature[4] argues that the current interglacial might be most analogous to a previous interglacial that lasted 28,000 years.

Predicted changes in orbital forcing suggest that the next ice age will begin about 50,000 years from now, regardless of man-made global warming [5] (see Milankovitch cycles). However anthropogenic forcing from increased greenhouse gases should outweigh orbital forcing for as long as intensive use of fossil fuels continues (see global warming)."

Have a nice day ;)
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Angus

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« Reply #182 on: July 27, 2007, 09:20:21 AM »
The Icecaps have been retreating for some decades now. The North Pole already has been penetrated by an Icebreaker. And with all this ice melting, the total temperature of the oceans are warming.
Parallell of another thread now, here is a quote just posted there:

"The Earth is now in an interglacial period known as the Holocene. It was conventional wisdom that "the typical interglacial period lasts about 12,000 years" but now appears to be incorrect from the evidence of ice core records. Therefore, it has been widely contradicted recently; for example, an article in Nature[4] argues that the current interglacial might be most analogous to a previous interglacial that lasted 28,000 years.

Predicted changes in orbital forcing suggest that the next ice age will begin about 50,000 years from now, regardless of man-made global warming [5] (see Milankovitch cycles). However anthropogenic forcing from increased greenhouse gases should outweigh orbital forcing for as long as intensive use of fossil fuels continues (see global warming)."

You'll find the links if you look.
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #183 on: July 27, 2007, 09:27:57 AM »
Angus, wikipedia is not a reliable source for anything. It's a crock.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

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Offline Masherbrum

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« Reply #184 on: July 27, 2007, 09:30:36 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by cpxxx
It makes me 'giggle' to read that a few mild winters here means the global ice cap is melting forever and it was all caused by us.

The issue isn't whether we are going through a warm phase and I realise a warm phase may simply mean not as cold but still cold. We are going through a warm period.

The debate is whether or not we did it and is there anything we can do about it? My belief is no on both counts. Many others believe the same thing.
When did I state that?    BUT, we are "contributing towards it", to think otherwise is ludicrous.
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Offline MiloMorai

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« Reply #185 on: July 27, 2007, 09:46:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I very much believe we can have an effect on air quality.. they less inversion in an area the worse it is too... if we insist on living in areas that don't self clean we will have some pretty bad air there..  the indians reported smog in los angles valley from simple bonfires.   lazs
Good idea, spread the smog around.

Offline Angus

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« Reply #186 on: July 27, 2007, 10:59:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Angus, wikipedia is not a reliable source for anything. It's a crock.


It is closely following Britannica FYI, and that one came as a shock to many.

Addition, the periodic table of elements in there seems to be correct. So Water vs Mercury seems to be...correct.

Sources are all useless if your mind cannot handle working with them anyway...
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #187 on: July 27, 2007, 02:28:08 PM »
Of course we are "contributing toward it"... we are contributing toward every single thing that happens just by being here.

The point is tho..  how much and what can we do about it...  I say very little in both cases.   I say that nature is such an overwhelming cause that anything we do about global climate won't change the way nature wants to go in any real measurable way.

angus's quote simply says that the scientists are caught off guard by nature once again... big surprise... they simply can't predict squat when it comes to any natural global climate.   They don't understand fully how nature works much less how we affect it.. their models are pitiful childrens toys missing any signifcance in the real world.

lazs

Offline Angus

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« Reply #188 on: July 27, 2007, 04:11:29 PM »
So, that's that  far. You say we are contributing to something that we couldn't, and the "something" is something that was not happening.

(when compared to the debates some months ago)
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #189 on: July 28, 2007, 09:25:43 AM »
retro..  what?  a 2006 study? you realize that the man made global warming alarmists have changed their minds ten times on about everything since 2006 right?   no more 30' rise in the oceans in 3 decades... no more 5 degrees warmer... etc etc etc.

You say that it won't hurt us to appease the accolytes of the man made global religion... but... you don't say what we have to do... you don't say what laws you want to see passed what restrictions... how much it will cost us...

That stuff is not being discussed because if it was... then you and your ilk would have to do some real explaining.   People would want more that "significant" and "we believe" and some real numbers starting with what is happening right now and what the temp will be next year and the year after...

sure.. I will screw in the mercury filled bulbs.   Why not?  I don't worry about mercury poison.

What else you want me to do?

lazs

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #190 on: July 28, 2007, 09:36:06 AM »
Angus... of course we create pollution.. of course lighting a match affects the temp of the glob... for an instant and  in an infintesimal way...

I believe that the effect we are having on world global climate is minute... not worth getting worked up about and that natural forces are such that normal swings in global climate sweep anything we do off the table like a single ant at a picnic...  I won't shut down a picnic or spray pesticides all over the place over one ant.

I feel, as do most of the less hysterical scientists.. that we affect the rate of increase... maybe one to three percent...  In other words... if the temp were to rise 1 degree on it's own in 100 years... we would be adding about 1-3%  % to that one degree.   nothing to get excited about and...

If we go into a normal cooling cycle (and we are and we will)... our little contribution will not even be measurable anymore... if we go into a dangerous cooling cycle.. say an ice age... we won't be able to stop it... we can't heat the planet..

Admit it.. we can't stop it from getting colder... so how dangerous is our "man made global warming" if we can't even prevent global cooling?

As I said.. I don't believe we are contributing enough to matter one way or the other but... we will get more energy efficient... it is inevitable and a good thing... not because we are paniced and conned into it but because...

energy need to get cheaper and cleaner... it will happen on it's own as the tech gets better.

That is the way I want it to happen... at it's own speed and with time to think it through...

Not is a panic that breeds things like a DDT ban or a MTBE in the gasoline not a panic that kills millions and poisons our water.

lazs

Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #191 on: July 28, 2007, 09:39:26 AM »
"Ifs"..."When and ...if"............ "Maybe".............."Maybe not"............"Could be"......."Possibly".........and as has been said "Significant".

I R A scientist. Give me my grant money.

"If" a rabbit had wings his butt wouldn`t hit the ground so much. That would be a "significant" difference.
Pay me.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #192 on: July 28, 2007, 09:47:38 AM »
milo.. I am in the pollution business... the saying is "the solution to pollution is dillution"

this is a true statement..  every thing on the planet including us and the earth itself... causes pollution to some other part of the planet.

If you define pollution as any change in the background then everything pollutes.

If you define pollution as any measurable addition to the background that can be proven to be harmful then that is something else.

people add nitrates and co2 to crops all the time to increase yield.. without it..millions would starve.  and.. in the grand scheme of things.. it is nothing.

If the only cars were those in LA basin...  the pollution would still be terrible there.. if it was on the plains.. it would not even be measurable on a global scale.

Co2 trails global temp rise... the sun is heating the planet... it will start cooling shortly.   As it cools.. the oceans will absorb the co2 and we will have slightly less crop yeild...

We need to worry more about global cooling than warming by a far cry.

lazs

Offline FiLtH

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« Reply #193 on: July 28, 2007, 10:13:19 AM »
woohoo no more recycling!

~AoM~

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #194 on: July 28, 2007, 10:17:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2

What else you want me to do?

lazs


I'm sure many would be satisfied if we just gave control over everything to the UN.

No surer way to start a world war imo though.
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